2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I guess I just feel like Wall overpowers Kyrie at times, and also think JR could get through screens a little better.

I mean, no one was stopping Wall in that first quarter, he was just on fire. But I think someone with a little more size would stop him from getting into the lane as easily.

I am.with you. That's why Liggins is a guy.who would.be in my rotation vs Washington..He's the one guy who I can say is a "Pitbull" for us defensively.

 

[ACisKING]

I'd prefer to put JR and Shump on Wall and let Kyrie guard Beal.

Beal is one of the best guards at running through screens. He's so good that JJ Redick recently said he watches film on Beal and is constantly blown away at some of his creative cuts. I'm not sure how Kyrie is going to be able to chase Beal when Kyrie dies on basically every screen that is set on him. I'd much rather have him guard Wall just as I'd much rather have him guard Steph than Klay (though the real answer is probably to hide him on Otto Porter).

 

[Ohio]

http://bkref.com/tiny/0tu5X

Kyrie has done fine against Wall in their careers. Not a concern.

 

[LeShaq]

I'm not freaking about Kyrie's defense. Yes, it does suck.

The most important thing for Kyrie is to be healthy. And right now, he seems healthy. He's gotten through the season with almost no injury concerns.

That's really all that matters to me right now.

Also, Kyrie is clearly improving and gaining confidence offensively. He's had his Super Assist run this season, as well as the 20-point-scoring streak.

I wish his defense wasn't trash in the regular season, but if it keeps him healthy, I'm ok with it.

 

[priceFTW]

He's been on an offensive tear over the last 15 games (29 ppg on 51/42/92 splits, 63% TS and a 124 ORTG); you can't really score much better than that. He's the best ISO scorer in the game and honestly, when was the last time you really saw someone lock him up? Nobody does--he basically just misses when he's off, but nobody is really stopping him. You get the feeling that he can score 30 a game reliably efficiently.

But it seems he's giving back defensively almost as much as he's gaining offensively.

In his last 15 games, opponents he has directly defended are shooting 55.2% against him, more than 10% higher against him than against the rest of the league.

On threes, they're shooting 49% against him, almost 15% higher against him than against anyone else. That's just next level bad. And those are just the shots he directly defends and doesn't include the plays where he gets picked out of a play and the defense breaks down and someone else contests a shot in the paint.

 

[Gus Zing]

When Wall's making his jumper he's the best pg in the league.
He doesn't always do that so thats why he's like the 4th or 5th best.

People always talk about how Kyrie is the Kobe of point guards. He's got that level of talent. The next step for him is become that way on defense.

I think he'll be much better in the playoffs. However, if he could ever be a great on the ball defender as well...

 

[ACisKING]

He's been on an offensive tear over the last 15 games (29 ppg on 51/42/92 splits, 63% TS and a 124 ORTG); you can't really score much better than that. He's the best ISO scorer in the game and honestly, when was the last time you really saw someone lock him up? Nobody does--he basically just misses when he's off, but nobody is really stopping him. You get the feeling that he can score 30 a game reliably efficiently.

But it seems he's giving back defensively almost as much as he's gaining offensively.

In his last 15 games, opponents he has directly defended are shooting 55.2% against him, more than 10% higher against him than against the rest of the league.

On threes, they're shooting 49% against him, almost 15% higher against him than against anyone else. That's just next level bad. And those are just the shots he directly defends and doesn't include the plays where he gets picked out of a play and the defense breaks down and someone else contests a shot in the paint.

Kyrie is basically my favorite player in the league after Porzingis. But I genuinely believe that much of the Cavs defensive issues start with him. There's been a lot of talk about the scheme and the lack of rim protection. But no scheme or player can entirely cover up for a guard that can neither navigate a pick nor play isolation defense. You can't even put him off the ball because he gets screened off so easily. He's basically one of the worst defenders in the NBA by nearly every measure and he's been worse this year than either of the last two years. His individual defense just puts the Cavs on the back foot on every possession.

The only way the Cavs can once again become a semblance of a decent defensive team is if Kyrie can raise his defense in the playoffs from horrible to average. If he can at least do that the Cavs will look night and day better. Considering he's had stretches of competence on that end there is reason to have hope. But if he doesn't, neither scheme nor Larry Sanders (or any other rim protector) is going to be enough to shore up the defense enough to repeat IMO.

 

[KI4MVP]

edit: never mind

 

[Ohio]

Kyrie's defense has been shit but let's not get it twisted. Nobody on this team has played any semblance of defense in months. Not one player.

 

[godfather]

Kyrie is basically my favorite player in the league after Porzingis. But I genuinely believe that much of the Cavs defensive issues start with him. There's been a lot of talk about the scheme and the lack of rim protection. But no scheme or player can entirely cover up for a guard that can neither navigate a pick nor play isolation defense. You can't even put him off the ball because he gets screened off so easily. He's basically one of the worst defenders in the NBA by nearly every measure and he's been worse this year than either of the last two years. His individual defense just puts the Cavs on the back foot on every possession.

The only way the Cavs can once again become a semblance of a decent defensive team is if Kyrie can raise his defense in the playoffs from horrible to average. If he can at least do that the Cavs will look night and day better. Considering he's had stretches of competence on that end there is reason to have hope. But if he doesn't, neither scheme nor Larry Sanders (or any other rim protector) is going to be enough to shore up the defense enough to repeat IMO.

Our defense is still awful when he sits though. No one is claiming Kyrie is a good defensive player, but nearly everyone is on the decline on that end.

Shump hasn't even been good this year defensively. LeBron has taken a hit (too many minutes for him so he gets tired)...

Frye a defensive 5 is awful! Our wing players in general aren't elite, then when you combine that with no rim protection, we are bad.

TT is a good defensive player, but he's not ideal as starting center defensively. We lack too much size, and when you don't have size, you need speed, and we don't even have that on defense. So what do we got? A team that's getting killed.

Larry Sanders HAS to play. I know it's desperate, but we can't win it at all this way. We might get a shocker upset in the East even the way we're going.

I think the real achilles heel is not figuring out our defensive center. We threw our chips into Mozgov, it worked for 5 minutes, then it was gone.

I think that's the one mistake Griffin made. He gambled that Mozgov would fill that void going forward, trading two first round picks, and that didn't work out. And it hurt us too, given we don't have many creative ways to fill that vacant position going forward.

Our biggest hope might be a guy that's been out of the league for two years because he wanted to smoke pot.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Kyrie has been terrible, dies on pick and roll and settles for mismatches leaving his big on an island for no reason. He is the head of the snake and the defense reacts to whatever position he is in.

Korver has struggled since the injury. Guys are getting by him and it's clear he's lost several steps this year. The Hawks benched him as a result before trading him to us. The Hawks defenses improved overnight. He has a tendency to overhelp, can never tell if it's strategy or not.

RJ has struggled this year as well. He often gets beats by guards even when in a great position. He has been reaching and overfouling his year as well, instead of being in position to take a charge.

LeBron's worst year on defense (a few articles have been written about this). His opponents are attempting to score on him way more this year. He rarely boxes out which has lost us games. He gives his opponents too much space.

-TT is the invisible man (remember his last block...worst use of 7'3 wingspan ever). His awareness level has been terrible but his rebounding rate has taken the biggest dip I've seen in years. Teams are sandwiching him on the offensive glass but why is he so out of position on defense? Is he hurt and won't sit because of pride? Something is not right for him (our toughest/grittiest player along with Delly to suddenly lose his edge). He used to get rebounds like a possessed man but it seems he has been neutered. Reading that James Harden article and his shade at Khloe impacting his game can't be an ignored factor here...

JR/Shump have also had pretty bad years on the defensive end. Shump doesn't chase and crashes onto picks. JR often tries to cheat and get stuck going under picks leading to wide open 3's. JR has gotten lost often doubling guards who don't have the ball leading to embarrassingly wide open 3's. I almost argued to put them on the point guard but they get beaten to the basket quicker than Kyrie.

Frye has been the softest player and listening to the podcast, which I enjoy, has given me perspective on his mental edge to approaching a game. If he sees a bigger man, he avoids any physical contact lol.He CAN NEVER play center for us. I would rather play Derrick Williams, Love or Bron at center.

Love refuses to contest on weakside and often prepares for the rebound. To his credit he is probably the only guy on our team who boxes out.

My Point:
We've got to start looking at Ty Lue. Why did the players stop listening to him? Is that an assumption I'm making because maybe he is not preaching it. Why did Derrick Williams, who had great impact on the 2nd unit with Bron suddenly disappear? He apparently has a secret defense but isn't sure it will work. The idea some have is that Ty is some genius that is hiding everything for the playoffs. So losing games while playing Bron 40+ minutes must be a part of the master plan heading into the playoffs...

All this money spent is a bad look for Griffin who needs a new contract this summer as well. IF this slump continues we could have the highest payroll and end up getting a 4th seed in the East (Bron sitting last 2-3 games) and 9th seed overall.

 

[shoes22]

Kyrie looked incredibly tired last night. He really had nothing left by the 4th quarter of last night’s game.

For such a young guy, stamina shouldn’t be as much of a concern as it is.

 

[godfather]

Kyrie looked incredibly tired last night. He really had nothing left by the 4th quarter of last night’s game.

For such a young guy, stamina shouldn’t be as much of a concern as it is.

He also played Olympic basketball this summer, after coming off a late post-season run.

He's not playing LB minutes, but really, I've never seen Kyrie look as good conditioning wise as he has this year. I'm not worried about his conditioning as much as I did in the past. I think he is taking better care of his body, where in the past, it was quite evident he wasn't.

I'm going to give Kyrie a pass for last night. When Wall is on like that, there's nothing you can do. He was burying shots, and you still have to go under the screen otherwise he'll blow by Kyrie in a blur.

Wall is a tough guard for Kyrie, no denying that. I think Wall takes it very personal, too. He definitely feels slighted over Kyrie. He wants it to be known he's the better of the two when they step on the court. He goes right at him every single time.

This is why of all the teams in the East, we should definitely fear Washington the most because really fast point guards like Wall have always given Kyrie problems.

Lowry is not lighting quick. Kyrie won't even guard IT. But when we play the Wizards, you have to put him on Wall, because he's not a good fit against Beal either.

 

[Jordan]

He also played Olympic basketball this summer, after coming off a late post-season run.

He's not playing LB minutes, but really, I've never seen Kyrie look as good conditioning wise as he has this year. I'm not worried about his conditioning as much as I did in the past. I think he is taking better care of his body, where in the past, it was quite evident he wasn't.

I'm going to give Kyrie a pass for last night. When Wall is on like that, there's nothing you can do. He was burying shots, and you still have to go under the screen otherwise he'll blow by Kyrie in a blur.

Wall is a tough guard for Kyrie, no denying that. I think Wall takes it very personal, too. He definitely feels slighted over Kyrie. He wants it to be known he's the better of the two when they step on the court. He goes right at him every single time.

This is why of all the teams in the East, we should definitely fear Washington the most because really fast point guards like Wall have always given Kyrie problems.

Lowry is not lighting quick. Kyrie won't even guard IT. But when we play the Wizards, you have to put him on Wall, because he's not a good fit against Beal either.

When I was at the game in DC in February, Lue put Shump on Wall and let Kyrie guard Beal. Beal went off for something like 40 points, but Wall was contained much more than he was last night.. The difference is that, when Beal is on, all he provides is points. When Wall is allowed to do what he wants, though, the whole offense changes.

I don't know if we can make this move when we start JR, but if JR can contain Wall like Shump could, that may be our best bet. Let Kyrie guard Beal and force Beal to beat us.

If that strategy won't work then I think we'll be in trouble.

 

[Dr. Gymbo]

Kyrie looked incredibly tired last night. He really had nothing left by the 4th quarter of last night’s game.

For such a young guy, stamina shouldn’t be as much of a concern as it is.

Part of it is that he wastes so much energy channeling the Harlem Globetrotters with his overdribbling and moves he generates to create separation instead of passing the ball.