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2017-2018 Boston Celtics: No Irving! No Hayward! No Brooklyn Pick!

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Regrade the finalized trade

  • A+

    Votes: 20 8.0%
  • A

    Votes: 70 27.9%
  • B

    Votes: 74 29.5%
  • C

    Votes: 39 15.5%
  • D

    Votes: 18 7.2%
  • F

    Votes: 30 12.0%

  • Total voters
    251
I think Dave is referring to casually, and I agree with the sentiment. I find basketball shoes impossible to wear off the court. If you can pull it off, many props to you all.


Basketball shoes are great at the gym, court, etc. it's hard to look like a well dressed adult with any type of athletic shoes.
 
Basketball shoes are great at the gym, court, etc. it's hard to look like a well dressed adult with any type of athletic shoes.
Yeah, I wear basketball shoes really casually or at the gym. I wear Rockports as my adult shoes.
 
SLAM has Kyrie as the twelfth best player in basketball. I think that's a very fair ranking.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/slam-top-50/kyrie-irving-12/

It can’t be about the shot. At least, it can’t only be about the shot.

The shot, well, I’m not going to offend you by explaining that. The fact that it’s not clearly the defining moment of the 2016 NBA Finals has everything to do with his quite-possibly-GOAT teammate’s knack for immaculately timed chase downs and in no way diminishes the importance and all-time, cold-blooded clutch status of the shot itself. The shot was friggin’ YUGE. The timing, the stakes, the (ahem) defender. Shots get no bigger than this particular shot.

But that can’t, objectively, be the reason we think Kyrie Irving is a better basketball player than he was this time last year.

This is just one ranking, of course, and rankings in general are bad and should be avoided at all costs, but here we are. The point is that last year, we ranked Kyrie Irving the 15th best player in the NBA, this coming off a season in which he averaged 21.7 points and 5.2 assists per game. This year, coming off a season in which he averaged 19.6 point and 4.7 assists, we’ve got him 12th.

So what’s that even about.

Well, let’s acknowledge some context. Kyrie missed the Cavs’ first 24 games last season—nearly a third of the schedule!—while coming back from injury, and once he was back, he averaged about five fewer minutes per game. As such, his per-36 numbers are probably a better measure of his effectiveness, and in that, he was actually slightly more productive than he was in 2014-15. Then again, his percentages were down from the field and behind the arc, and his PER and win shares were both down as well. If his regular-season numbers don’t show that Irving dropped off last season, they surely don’t show that he made any great leap forward, either.

But yeah, regular-season numbers. I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking this argument plays itself. Maybe you’re right: Irving played 53 regular-season games while working his way back from injury, and working himself into game shape. Starting in late April, he played 21 games that mattered, against increasingly difficult competition, and averaged a very efficient 25.2 ppg. In the seven games that mattered most, against a historically great opponent, he was mostly excellent, and occasionally brilliant—never more so than on the last made basket of the series.

Now pretend for a second that he missed.

Maybe the Cavs still pull out the win. Maybe they don’t. Either way, it’s not like Kyrie’s entire legacy is shattered by missing a contested three with nearly a minute left in a tied Game 7. He might have gotten another chance that night. Odds are good he’ll have more chances down the road.

But if he’d missed? Win or lose, he still had a terrific series, much of it while matched against the reigning League MVP. Make or miss, that one shot shouldn’t really matter in how we regard a player’s entire body of work. But it sure feels like it does.

Kyrie acknowledged as much last month, telling Cleveland.com that his life “changed drastically” after the shot, that the moment represented “validation” for his place among the game’s elite. That makes sense. We expect the greats to be at their greatest when the stakes are highest. With that shot, he earned his spot. Maybe just as important, he earned it with his play throughout the series, without which the Cavs weren’t in a position to win a decisive Game 7 in the first place.

He’s five seasons in, just 24 years old. It’ll take more than a single shot (no matter how big) to get him into the top 10, to crack All-NBA First Team status, to start stealing MVP votes. One shot doesn’t put Kyrie in the best-in-the-game conversation. But maybe it tells us he’s the sort of dude who expects to be there before long.

KYRIE IRVING SLAM TOP 50 HISTORY

2011: –
2012: 17
2013: 9
2014: 16
2015: 15

2016: 12

SLAM Top 50 Players 2016
RankPlayerTeamPositionPos. Rank

50Ben Simmons76ersSF9
49D’Angelo RussellLakersPG12
48Derrick FavorsJazzPF12
47Devin BookerSunsSG8
46Chris BoshHeatPF11
45Bradley BealWizardsSG7
44Eric BledsoeSunsPG11
43Serge IbakaMagicPF10
42CJ McCollumBlazersSG6
41Pau GasolSpursPF9
40Rudy GobertJazzC9
39Kevin LoveCavsPF8
38Dirk NowitzkiMavsPF7
37Kristaps PorzingisKnicksPF6
36Kemba WalkerHornetsPG10
35Dwight HowardHawksC8
34Hassan WhitesideHeatC7
33Gordon HaywardJazzSF8
32Mike ConleyGrizzliesPG9
31Andrew WigginsT-WolvesSF7
30Dwyane WadeBullsSG5
29Paul MillsapHawksPF5
28Marc GasolGrizzliesC6
27Al HorfordCelticsC5
26Giannis AntetokounmpoBucksSF6
25Isaiah ThomasCelticsPG8
24DeMar DeRozanRaptorsSG4
23DeAndre JordanClippersC4
22Andre DrummondPistonsC3
21Kyle LowryRaptorsPG7
20Karl-Anthony TownsT-WolvesC2
19Jimmy ButlerBullsSG3
18LaMarcus AldridgeSpursPF4
17John WallWizardsPG6
16Draymond GreenWarriorsPF3
15Carmelo AnthonyKnicksSF5
14Blake GriffinClippersPF2
13Klay ThompsonWarriorsSG2
12Kyrie IrvingCavsPG5
11Chris PaulClippersPG4
 
But then they have Kevin love at 39 with people like Hayward above him and al Horford who he just got done eviscerating.
Yeah, I'd say Love is 8-10 spots too low. It's tough to make the argument that Love is a top-25 player now, though, simply because we don't know how he would perform for us with a different offensive role. I actually think he may be due for a huge uptick in the ratings this season.
 
Yeah, I'd say Love is 8-10 spots too low. It's tough to make the argument that Love is a top-25 player now, though, simply because we don't know how he would perform for us with a different offensive role. I actually think he may be due for a huge uptick in the ratings this season.

We know exactly how he will use function as a bigger option though and that's miles in front of 40. Even as a third option wasn't his impact enormous in quite a few advanced stats? Like top 10?

In no universe should Andrew Wiggins be rated above love. How in the world can they justify a lot of these selections?
 
We know exactly how he will use function as a bigger option though and that's mikes in front of 40. Even as a third option wasn't his impact enormous in quite a few advanced stats? Like top 10?

In no universe should Andrew Wiggins be rated above love. How in the world can they justify a lot of these selections?
The three most egregious to me were Dirk, Dwight, and Wiggins. I actually think Hayward is incredibly underrated. After that, Kristaps, Kemba, Whiteside, Horford, and Drummond are all shaky in my mind. I just checked my list and I have Love as the 31st best player in the NBA.
 
The three most egregious to me were Dirk, Dwight, and Wiggins. I actually think Hayward is incredibly underrated. After that, Kristaps, Kemba, Whiteside, Horford, and Drummond are all shaky in my mind. I just checked my list and I have Love as the 31st best player in the NBA.

I like Hayward too, but I don't think he's better than love. I'd still have him quite a bit higher than you.
 
I like Hayward too, but I don't think he's better than love. I'd still have him quite a bit higher than you.
agreed if im ever unsure i do the trade test. If griff offered love for hayward the deal is agreed instantly. As age is not really an issue in this case its a simple answer
 
That's fair I guess...

I'm wondering who are the 3-4 PG's better than Chris Paul and Kyrie Irving though?

I mean, I get Westbrook and Curry; I understand that. But who is #3?
My bet is its Lillard and Harden. I agree with the latter, not so much with the former, but not counting the playoffs you could make the case for Lillard... Although, we all saw the playoffs, so...
 
My bet is its Lillard and Harden. I agree with the latter, not so much with the former, but not counting the playoffs you could make the case for Lillard... Although, we all saw the playoffs, so...

Harden for sure is better and is laughable how bad is reputation is. That guy is so good and gets so much shit. I actually had to defend him at a gathering. People were saying they wouldn't want him on the Kings.

Lillard above both kyrie and Chris Paul is lulz. That list is so bad. I think some people are happy because it ranks kyrie higher than others, but it has major problems.
 
My bet is its Lillard and Harden. I agree with the latter, not so much with the former, but not counting the playoffs you could make the case for Lillard... Although, we all saw the playoffs, so...

I just realized these are projections for 2016-17 and not rankings of 2015-16; is that right?
 
I just realized these are projections for 2016-17 and not rankings of 2015-16; is that right?

I project my foot up their ass for having Kevin love as the 40th best player.
 
I just realized these are projections for 2016-17 and not rankings of 2015-16; is that right?
Haha, I know, I know. I'm just trying to present their justification.

I project my foot up their ass for having Kevin love as the 40th best player.
Just curious, who on that list would you have Love over? At least after #30? I really have never seen him as better than that. And I am one of the biggest Love supporters on this board, not once have I ever been in favor of trading him, but he's always been a borderline all-star, which places him between #25-#30 for me.

Totally agree with you guys on Lillard, though... But I know @godfather and I have both talked about how outstanding Lillard's 2015-16 season was. He's a damn good player. I don't think he's better than Kyrie or Paul though.
 

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