Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[czvo]

While this makes a lot of sense, you have to take into consideration that any championship team in the past has had veterans who have been pretty much worthless when it comes to playing serious minutes. The reason for this being that you need guys who can take the younger guys, or guys without playoff experience and take them under their wings. Everything we hear about Jones, Miller, and Marion is that they are great locker room guys. It is evident with Miller who always looks to be positive and trying to keep this team together. Has he played like we all have hoped? Hell no, but I can guarantee you that he helps mend certain situations between the coaching staff and the key players like Lebron. Obviously Lebron listens and respects Miller or he would not want him on the team, same going for Jones.

So with that being said, if we were a young team with absolutely no shot at making a run then I would be all for brining in younger projects, but thats not the kind of team we are. After these trades I have a new confidence that this team will be just fine when they get on the court together.

You're not wrong, but these issues go beyond this year. In the four years that the team sucked, they consistently overlooked the center position, spent time on undersized PFs and SGs, and didn't once take a flier on a high level athlete with the tools to be very good but needed time. When they have, they've almost immediately traded them away. Its just frustrating to see a team consistently make decisions that, even as they are happening, you know probably won't end well. (This response really has less to do with Marion, Miller and Jones than it does with the decision making as a whole.)

 

[MirORich]

You're not wrong, but these issues go beyond this year. In the four years that the team sucked, they consistently overlooked the center position, spent time on undersized PFs and SGs, and didn't once take a flier on a high level athlete with the tools to be very good but needed time. When they have, they've almost immediately traded them away. Its just frustrating to see a team consistently make decisions that, even as they are happening, you know probably won't end well. (This response really has less to do with Marion, Miller and Jones than it does with the decision making as a whole.)

This is all valid and its frustrating to look back at those drafts now.

I liked Tristan Thompson but if I ever in the past tried to justify his selection at #4, I apologize to everyone one this board. Daydreaming about Klay, Kawhi, or Jonas in that spot(and the butterfly effect that would have cause for the 2012 draft) is pointless at this time though.

I still feel good about the roster now in place after these trades. And feel it can be even better and deeper next year. I think the team we're looking at in March and April and the games we're analyzing are going to look and feel a whole lot different than this atrocious stretch that started in Miami on Christmas.

 

[Visitor]

One of the real difference makers I see in terms of game momentum is just how many open shots (both threes and at the basket) we miss. It seems that every time we don't stick these the Cavs jog back on D and give up an easy transition bucket. Completely takes our players out of the game and gives just about any team a nice run and momentum.

I know someone had referenced an "open shot" statistic, I'd be interested in where we rank among the league.

 

[Kyrieville]

Golden State played perfect D on the P&R, the Cavs need to take note.

People are wondering why this team sucks? James Jones is the least of our concerns.

1. Kyrie is back to his Steve Francis form.
2. Love is absolutely terrible defensively. Terrible. He doesn't even try to contest shots if he has to move more than 3 feet, he just stares at guys in hopes to pad his rebounding stats. His offensive game is vastly overrated as well.
3. LeBron is not playing and when he does play, he looks like a shell of his former self.
4. Dellavedova is taking too many shots. He needs to stick to defense and distribution.
5. We can't defend the pick and roll.

 

[MH32246]

We know Kevin Love isn't great defensively its the coaching staffs job to find ways to hide him within the team defense if we were getting pressure from the wing I guarantee we wouldn't notice him so much if we actually forced opponents into positions were we could trap them it would help. Kyrie as a point needs to funnel the pg from the team we are playing into the strength of our defense or to the sidelines where they have less room to operate. On PnR I think instead of hedging it would be better on night like last night when we are playing elite PG but not with great size you just trap. Its all about effort.

 

[Birdy89]

We know Kevin Love isn't great defensively its the coaching staffs job to find ways to hide him within the team defense

The problem is they have to find a way to hide Kyrie as well, who is like his brother in arms of the worst defenders club.

If the team had only 1 real defensive albatross to hide it would be doable, 2 of them in the starting 5 is incredibly hard to do.

 

[wuck]

Its all about effort.

Giving up 36 fast-break points last night is another sign of this.

 

[MH32246]

Kyrie isn't doing enough offensively carrying the scoring load and getting others involved etc. to excuse his defensive effort lately.

 

[kookoo]

Giving up 36 fast-break points last night is another sign of this.

And only scoring 3... They need to have the song "Get Back" playing all through the practise as Blatt makes them run suicides for an hour. That's what I'd do.

 

[*L-Train*]

this team needs to get healthy. i wanna see them at full strength especially the Kyrie/Shump/Lebron/Love/Mozzy lineup (they need time together on the floor to build chemistry). in my opinion that's our best lineup, in Shump and Mozgov you have two guys who can take some pressure off our bad defensive players (Kyrie, Love) and you don't run into some of the problems you have with guys like Marion (spacing), Miller (defense) or TT (defensive rebounding, not a great presence in the paint) in there.

if that lineup starts to click and stays healthy i feel pretty good about our chances come playoff time.

 

[priceFTW]

this team needs to get healthy. i wanna see them at full strength especially the Kyrie/Shump/Lebron/Love/Mozzy lineup (they need time together on the floor to build chemistry). in my opinion that's our best lineup, in Shump and Mozgov you have two guys who can take some pressure off our bad defensive players (Kyrie, Love) and you don't run into some of the problems you have with guys like Marion (spacing), Miller (defense) or TT (defensive rebounding, not a great presence in the paint) in there.

if that lineup starts to click and stays healthy i feel pretty good about our chances come playoff time.

Agree with this although having two defensive liabilities is going to be tough to overcome. We're going to need James to step up defensively which I'm sure he will in the playoffs AND hope that Kyrie and/or Love raise their respective offensive games.

As another poster mentioned, Kyrie is not creating enough offense for the team to make up for his bad defense. I don't think he'll ever be even a net neutral defender, so he has to ameliorate by raising his offensive game to make us a difficult matchup for others. He's been hesitant to get to the rim of late so he might still be feeling the effects of his injury. Kyrie's improvent is really the biggest asset we have let because I don't see TT ever gaining a jumper or rebounding defensively or blocking shots. If we see a jump in Kyrie as a player on offense as a playmaker, we will be better. I love him, but it does cross my mind: what would this team look like with a Lillard/Wall/Lowry not to mention Curry or Paul. He needs to make that jump for us to be great.

 

[Simmy]

Chris Fedor did something good for once. See below:

Here's the number of passes on each half court possession in the final nine minutes of the fourth quarter based on my count after watching again:

0, 2, 0, 4, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 3, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0.

That's a total of 16 passes. In nine minutes, spanning 17 possessions. Two of the passes coming off the inbounds. That's not offense. I don't know what to call it. But if it doesn't change the losing streak will continue.

 

[Douglar]

How can the cavs have so much talent and lose so many games? Poor roster fit, lack of team chemistry and weak coaching. There's at least 10 minutes every game where the team looks like a boat with a broken rudder. Unselfish players drift off. Selfish players start gunning, the defense becomes a sieve. Can't win regular season games like that, much less post season games. No idea how to fix that without killing the season.

I'm not 100% confident on the trades. The team gave up a lot to get some role players that are not as good as the guys we have picked up in mid season trades in the last two years. Gilbert went all in looking for an inside fill on a straight flush. The problem here is even if he gets what he needs this season, all are at their peak or past their primes. The team sold off the future for 3 guys who could very well be worthless in 2017. Yes, even Shupert.

 

[MirORich]

How can the cavs have so much talent and lose so many games? Poor roster fit, lack of team chemistry and weak coaching. There's at least 10 minutes every game where the team looks like a boat with a broken rudder. Unselfish players drift off. Selfish players start gunning, the defense becomes a sieve. Can't win regular season games like that, much less post season games. No idea how to fix that without killing the season.

So it's just completely too much excuse making to acknowledge that right as they were beginning to click, Andy went down for the year, followed shortly by LeBron beginning a stretch of 10+ missed games? Teams that have played together for a few years may be able to handle that but a team in the first third of their season that was almost all new to each other and playing for a first time coach.
Yes, there have absolutely been bad stretches and blundering decisions but how an those be removed 100% from the context and reality of the injuries and newness? And how can you not look at the roster as it will be when LeBron and Shumpert both return and not think that all the tools are there, some of the adversity has been absorbed and learned from, and the depth is shored up.

I have no issue looking back in frustration with some of these stretches but do not understand the fear and doubt about moving forward.

I'm not 100% confident on the trades. The team gave up a lot to get some role players that are not as good as the guys we have picked up in mid season trades in the last two years. Gilbert went all in looking for an inside fill on a straight flush. The problem here is even if he gets what he needs this season, all are at their peak or past their primes. The team sold off the future for 3 guys who could very well be worthless in 2017. Yes, even Shupert.

What would make any of the three of them worthless in 2017?
And how are any of them considered "past their prime" when they are all under 30?

Mozgov would be 30
Shumpert 26
JR 31

All three are under contract for next year and we will have bird rights on all three. We can also match any offer Shumpert receives as an RFA this year.

I'd also argue that cumulatively and in a vacuum, the three of them are just as good as Deng and Hawes. Then factor in fit, the talent on the team around them and what they are being asked to do and I think its a far better set of trades than last year. What midseason trade from two years ago were you referring to? Livingston, Speights, and Walton? You can't really think thats a better set of players and circumstances(all three of them were immediately FA's at the end of that year) than the three guys we just got.

On top of that, when talking about the on the floor this season impact, which most of your post was concerned with, we just traded one player Waiters for three players.

 

[mhi]

I still can't believe that loss to the 76ers.