Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[Birdy89]

I think a healthy Love

Bigfoot sightings happen more often than that.

 

[Birdy89]

Lol.. I hope you're joking, right?

You've got Kevin Love ahead of former MVP candidate Paul George? Paul George who was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA? Who many said was the second-best two-way player in the game, period, behind LeBron James??

Methinks you never watched the guy play the game. George was an absolute beast... on both sides of the floor..

Defense is not valued by many on this board. A thrill goes up the leg for flashy slash lines, but something like being able to stop your man doesn't do much to get many excited. Probably why Kevin has so many fans in these parts.

 

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

Ultimately what does Love bring to the table besides scoring?

FIXED

 

[gourimoko]

I think the Cavaliers wanted to try to make it work with Dion. When things weren't going well and they had an opportunity to improve the team, they jumped on it.

That's my point, nowhere in this statement is LeBron even relevant. Hell, we tried to trade Dion in the summer, and he was mentioned in the letter -- that's my only point with respect to the letter. The letter was not some binding contract of who could and couldn't be traded; let's not pretend otherwise.

Not being sarcastic here, but didn't everyone expect this? I certainly did.

That Irving would play better than anyone else?

No, I don't recall anyone saying that at all; in fact, I recall the opposite views from most people. That Irving and James wouldn't mesh well due to neither having played with another ball dominant guard wanting to push the point.

"Amazing things" = exciting highlights? He's been impressive as a rookie, but amazing?

You're kinda splitting hairs here.. What's your argument? He's doing exceptionally well for a 19 year old rookie; let's not understate that just to make a case.

We agree.

Indeed, I think Love will do great here..

Back to disagreeing. I think a healthy Love is more valuable than Wiggins, both now and 3-4 years from now. I think it's a great deal for both teams.

We'll see, but unless Kevin Love learns to play defense, I think this is actually the furthest thing from the truth imaginable.

 

[tocov]

FIXED

Well for one - rebounding.
Your turn.

 

[Jack Brickman]

It's funny how much praise Wiggins was getting in the game thread, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that everyone here would be killing Kyrie or Love if one of them scored 33 points with only one assist and one board. In fact, I remember it happening with Kyrie earlier this season.

FIXED

Did you miss the 17 rebounds and 3 assists he had tonight?

 

[Steve_424]

Bigfoot sightings happen more often than that.

Nevermind he's played in 123 of his respective teams' last 130 games (95%).

 

[Lazor]

I wanted to keep Wiggins as much as the next person. I thought we had more leverage than some people thought and we gave up a little too much but I'm tired of hearing about this already. Only way we loose this trade is if we don't win the championship this year and love resigns elsewhere.

 

[gourimoko]

Nevermind he's played in 123 of his respective teams' last 130 games (95%).

Ehh.... you could reverse that and say he's only played in 74% of his games prior to this year, which is fairly low for a guy so young and does not bode well.

Again, I don't want to get sucked into knocking Kevin, because I hate this side of the argument, but let's not overlook his faults. Health is not something we can take for granted -- fuck guys, he's playing injured right now.

 

[Steve_424]

That's my point, nowhere in this statement is LeBron even relevant. Hell, we tried to trade Dion in the summer, and he was mentioned in the letter -- that's my only point with respect to the letter. The letter was not some binding contract of who could and couldn't be traded; let's not pretend otherwise.

My point is that, based on the letter, I believe Dion was part of the original plan LeBron signed up for. Because the exciting young player with superstar potential (Wiggins) was not included, I believe LeBron knew when he wrote the letter that the Cavs would likely have to deal him to get the guy he wanted - Kevin Love. It wasn't a written contract that Love and LeBron was a package deal, but I do believe there was a verbal agreement in place - sign here and we'll do whatever it takes to get Love.

That Irving would play better than anyone else?

No, I don't recall anyone saying that at all; in fact, I recall the opposite views from most people. That Irving and James wouldn't mesh well due to neither having played with another ball dominant guard wanting to push the point.

I thought they'd work perfectly together...I really did. LeBron likes playing the point forward role while Kyrie is more of a shooting guard than a point guard. I also anticipated that LeBron would push Kyrie to step his game up on the defensive end, which he has. Of course, I've always been very, very high on Kyrie. I can't speak for others, but I absolutely thought they'd mesh and he'd benefit the most from the LeBron Effect.

 

[kovanovich]

But of course, letting him walk to a team who will pay it is really the unthinkable outcome because they will not be able to replace him. And this is why I think they have to perform their due-dilligence on trade options prior to the upcoming trade deadline.

If this was ever on the table, it no longer is. So long as the team is winning, Love isn't going to be traded. I think I can say that with some confidence.

Had they continued to look horrible, I think anything would have had to be considered. It's hard to imagine that they could have gotten anywhere near adequate return for him though.

Love has given the team some leeway with his opt-in declaration. They need to HOLD HIM TO IT; he will be more fairly paid for the 2015-16 season and the team will have the flexibility to trade him if he proves to be NOT THE ANSWER. I would even give him a one-year max if it makes it easier on his ego. But the multi-year max is OUT!

He said he would opt in. But he would make more money by opting out and signing a one year year contract, with a player option, with the Cavs, presumably with the view towards re-signing a 5 year max in 2016. Did he really mean he was planning to opt in, or was he speaking more loosely that he planned to be back next year (maybe under a new contract)?

I hear what you and others are saying. One of the worst things a team can do in the NBA is sign a player to a bad contract, especially a bad max contract. The Cavs don't want to turn Love into a bad contract. However, so long as he is productive, he will be tradable. I think he is viewed as a max player around the league, and will continue to be viewed that way. And I think he will command a max contract whenever he does become a free agent. Of course, as you imply, the difficulty is that with the salary cap it would be extremely hard to replace Love if you decide not to re-sign him to the 5 year max.

 

[Steve_424]

Ehh.... you could reverse that and say he's only played in 74% of his games prior to this year, which is fairly low for a guy so young and does not bode well.

Again, I don't want to get sucked into knocking Kevin, because I hate this side of the argument, but let's not overlook his faults. Health is not something we can take for granted -- fuck guys, he's playing injured right now.

"Injured" can mean a whole lot of things. Derrick Rose and Kevin Love are both playing injured, but those situations aren't anywhere close to similar.

 

[gourimoko]

When players age, especially wing players like LeBron, they develop their jumpshot in place of their declining athleticism. They don't develop their ability to rebound and bang around in the paint.

Here's a guy who has been compared to James his entire career. He plays better at the 4 than the 3... and once New York gets their act together, he'll surely be back at the 4 for a great deal of his time on the floor.

But with that said, and I'll take a page from Riley here, but PF does not necessarily mean "bang around in the paint," especially not on offense. Whereas being a perimeter player means having extreme lateral quickness and being able to defend the most athletic players in the NBA.

LeBron is a point-forward, he's not a center-forward. He should be developing his jumper and passing skills--and that's what he's doing.

Actually bro, in the NBA, the position you play depends on the position you can defend. If LeBron wants to be a net positive for as long as possible, he should be retooling his game to become a power-forward.

That doesn't mean he has to play in the post and I dunno why you're mentioning PF/C. What it means is that he has the size and skillset to defend other power forwards, and he should maximize his ability at that position as it's unlikely that he'll be able to defend guards and opposing small forwards for much longer.

 

[gourimoko]

"Injured" can mean a whole lot of things. Derrick Rose and Kevin Love are both playing injured, but those situations aren't anywhere close to similar.

You're right.. But Kevin Love is injured to the point where it's questionable if he should even be on the floor. He's obviously in serious pain, every game.

 

[gourimoko]

Btw, everyone, Kevin Love is getting a max years and max money deal (season after next). Period. Whether Cleveland gives it to him or not, he's going to get offered one, and he's going to take it.. He'd be a fool not to.