Luka Doncic

[Nathan S]

* Lithuanian. Arvydas Sabonis was playing in the NBA (Portland) in 1996 when Sabonis Jr was born.

Edit: I guess that's what you meant by technically. My bad.

Yeah, was just covering my bases in case someone wanted to argue that Domantas counts as an American. I don't think most fans see him that way.

No matter how you look at it, the NBA seems to be on the verge of an enormous transformation...last year's All-NBA teams included 13 American players and 2 international players. That's going to change in a hurry.

 

[Muffinalt]

Top players under age 25 this season, by VORP:

Only Towns and (technically) Sabonis are American. Cameroon also has two players in Embiid and Siakam. The other six players are from six different countries.

Cameroon is a going to have one hell of a front court to go up against in international competitions thats for sure.

 

[Nathan S]

Ah yes very true, i think i just got caught in the cinderella story of finally having a successor to Nowitzki in Dallas.

Loving Giannis as well, such a humble dude for what a ridiculous talent he is.

I like the outlook of the future hopeful contenders in Milwaukee, Dallas, Sacramento etc. Would be a nice change over the shitshow that is the Warriors. Fingers crossed the


Cameroon is a going to have one hell of a front court to go up against in international competitions thats for sure.

Yeah, they still have Prince Luc too lol. Don't know what other players they have, but that's a ridiculously good 3-4-5 especially on defense.

 

[Pioneer10]

Man if Yugoslavia hadn't broken up: Dragic, Doncic, Jokic, Nurkic, Bogdovanic, Bjelica.

OTOH the Spanish and Argentinean and even Brazilean Golden Generations haven't really been followed up by much new young talent

 

[Ruggeder]

That Yugoslavian team would be in the NBA finals.

 

[K1rieIrving>AllOtherPG's]

Yeah, was just covering my bases in case someone wanted to argue that Domantas counts as an American. I don't think most fans see him that way.

No matter how you look at it, the NBA seems to be on the verge of an enormous transformation...last year's All-NBA teams included 13 American players and 2 international players. That's going to change in a hurry.

I hope so, international players actually know how to play team basketball and understand the team concept of it, all American kids do is chase stats since AAU, they don’t give a fuck about the team and they have no idea how to play basketball the right way.

 

[Jstock12]

I hope so, international players actually know how to play team basketball and understand the team concept of it, all American kids do is chase stats since AAU, they don’t give a fuck about the team and they have no idea how to play basketball the right way.

That's definitely a big downside. BUT, since American "style" promotes individual skill above teamwork, it results in so many individually skilled players. Europe on the other hand, has much fewer individually strong players per capita, even though they're much more fundamentally sound and fit better within the team concept. NBA is a good example of how those 2 things mix together, with the absolute best of both worlds.

 

[Nathan S]

That's definitely a big downside. BUT, since American "style" promotes individual skill above teamwork, it results in so many individually skilled players. Europe on the other hand, has much fewer individually strong players per capita, even though they're much more fundamentally sound and fit better within the team concept. NBA is a good example of how those 2 things mix together, with the absolute best of both worlds.

But the question is...why are top American players no longer developing into superstars?


If you picked a U25 All-American team five years ago, you'd have Harden, George, Kawhi, Davis, Cousins, Griffin, Lillard, Wall, Butler, Kemba, Green, Hayward, DeRozan, Klay...a real smorgasbord of superstar talent. The All-World team would have Kyrie, Rubio, Ibaka, Vucevic...maybe a 20-year-old Steven Adams...maybe Tristan and Delly...

So a starting 5 of Harden-George-Kawhi-Davis-Cousins against Kyrie-Rubio-Delly-Ibaka-Vucevic. Total joke...USA wins by 50.


But if you had to pick a U25 All-American team now, who would be on it? Towns, obviously, and Fox...Tatum's solid...Booker's a good scorer...Gordon, Kuzma, and Turner are decent...hell, throw Zion in there??
Meanwhile, the All-World team has Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Simmons, Nurkic, Capela, Siakam, Doncic, and Ayton.

Now you're looking at Fox-Booker-Tatum-Towns-Turner against Doncic-Giannis-Siakam-Jokic-Embiid. Maybe a bit closer this time, but only barely...world by 30.


So what's changed, either in the NBA or in player development globally? I don't think this is just a statistical fluke...the change is too overwhelming.

 

[Pioneer10]

But the question is...why are top American players no longer developing into superstars?


If you picked a U25 All-American team five years ago, you'd have Harden, George, Kawhi, Davis, Cousins, Griffin, Lillard, Wall, Butler, Kemba, Green, Hayward, DeRozan, Klay...a real smorgasbord of superstar talent. The All-World team would have Kyrie, Rubio, Ibaka, Vucevic...maybe a 20-year-old Steven Adams...maybe Tristan and Delly...

So a starting 5 of Harden-George-Kawhi-Davis-Cousins against Kyrie-Rubio-Delly-Ibaka-Vucevic. Total joke...USA wins by 50.


But if you had to pick a U25 All-American team now, who would be on it? Towns, obviously, and Fox...Tatum's solid...Booker's a good scorer...Gordon, Kuzma, and Turner are decent...hell, throw Zion in there??
Meanwhile, the All-World team has Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Simmons, Nurkic, Capela, Siakam, Doncic, and Ayton.

Now you're looking at Fox-Booker-Tatum-Towns-Turner against Doncic-Giannis-Siakam-Jokic-Embiid. Maybe a bit closer this time, but only barely...world by 30.


So what's changed, either in the NBA or in player development globally? I don't think this is just a statistical fluke...the change is too overwhelming.

You forgot to throw Murray into the international pool: I think this stuff just ebbs and flows. Mid 2000's before Lebron and Wade starting peaking the international were crazy good if you put them all together: Duncan, Dirk, Ginobili, Peja, Nash, Yao, Pau, AK47 (non U25 but most were young)

In many ways the international saved the league after the Jordan era. Fucking expansion diluted the product and personally I think the hand checking era was over-rated in terms of why the league wasn't as watchable. More like hand checking came into play because talent sucked overall

 

[Nathan S]

You forgot to throw Murray into the international pool: I think this stuff just ebbs and flows. Mid 2000's before Lebron and Wade starting peaking the international were crazy good if you put them all together: Duncan, Dirk, Ginobili, Peja, Nash, Yao, Pau, AK47 (non U25 but most were young)

In many ways the international saved the league after the Jordan era. Fucking expansion diluted the product and personally I think the hand checking era was over-rated in terms of why the league wasn't as watchable. More like hand checking came into play because talent sucked overall

Partly agree, but there was a solid handful of American rising stars in the early 2000's too...Baron Davis, T-Mac, Artest, and Redd were All-NBA guys before their 25th birthdays, and T-Mac in particular looked like a GOAT-level talent. Lamar Odom and Elton Brand weren't All-NBA, but could've easily been. Not as bad as the current drought, IMO.

 

[Photon]

Some of it has to be blamed on the social media and such. So much attention individuals now generate, it’s just crazy. You don’t get enough publicity change school and again and again. Do some stupid stuff and so on. I don’t blame US for that, it’s probably we are just behind in this department (again not saying it’s all bad because of SM but there’s some deeeep traps there). Teams still dominate over individuals, maybe fussball already catching up to the USA standard but not basketball.
What I am trying to say, European TEAMS produce young basketball players in the US players took over (or parents etc). If all the tools are there, it’s all good, but if not... let’s just say I firmly believe youngsters STILL need guidance and experience from the right people (professional), but it seems too many think they can do all by themselves.
But it’s not all bad, the balance is the main problem (currently).

 

[Nathan S]

Back on the topic of Doncic, he'll be playing PG full-time tonight against the Warriors with DSJ out and Barea now out for the season. Potential for some fireworks.

 

[Jstock12]

I don't even...

View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1084610661676662785

 

[SmudgeHog]

Harden currently 1-14 from 3pt today (and Gerald Green is 1-7 and PJ Tucker is 0-4)

Amazing they still have a lead.

edit: HAD a lead!

 

[Nathan S]

Harden currently 1-14 from 3pt today (and Gerald Green is 1-7 and PJ Tucker is 0-4)

Amazing they still have a lead.

edit: HAD a lead!

Even worse, Harden may not get a triple double. Oh the humanity! Someone get that man a rebound!

EDIT: Alas, the formidable backcourt of DJ Augustin and Evan Fournier was too much to overcome...