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Malaysia Flight 370 missing

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Maximus

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How does a 777 disappear for almost 3 days? :confused:

Ten countries scour sea for Malaysia jet lost in 'unprecedented mystery'

BY EVELINE DANUBRATA AND NGUYEN PHUONG LINH

KUALA LUMPUR/PHU QUOC ISLAND, Vietnam Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:13am EDT

(Reuters) - T he disappearance of a Malaysian airliner about an hour into a flight to Beijing is an "unprecedented mystery", the civil aviation chief said on Monday, as a massive air and sea search now in its third day failed to find any trace of the plane or 239 people on board.

Dozens of ships and aircraft from 10 countries scoured the seas around Malaysia and south of Vietnam as questions mounted over possible security lapses and whether a bomb or hijacking attempt could have brought down the Boeing 777-200ER which took off from the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur.

The area of the search would be widened from Tuesday, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, the head of Malaysia's Civil Aviation Authority, told reporters.

A senior police official told Reuters that people armed with explosives and carrying false identity papers had tried to fly out of Kuala Lumpur in the past, and that current investigations were focused on two passengers who were on the missing plane with stolen passports.

"We have stopped men with false or stolen passports and carrying explosives, who have tried to get past KLIA (airport) security and get on to a plane," he said. "There have been two or three incidents, but I will not divulge the details."

Interpol confirmed on Sunday at least two passengers used stolen passports and said it was checking whether others aboard had used false identity documents.

Azharuddin said a hijacking attempt could not be ruled out as investigators explore all theories for the loss of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.

"Unfortunately we have not found anything that appears to be objects from the aircraft, let alone the aircraft," he told a news conference. "As far as we are concerned, we have to find the aircraft. We have to find a piece of the aircraft if possible."

Azharuddin also said the two men with stolen passports did not look like Asians, but he did not elaborate. Airport CCTV footage showed they completed all security procedures, he said.

"We are looking at the possibility of a stolen passport syndicate," he said.

About two-thirds of the 227 passengers and 12 crew now presumed to have died aboard the plane were Chinese. The airline said other nationalities included 38 Malaysians, seven Indonesians, six Australians, five Indians, four French and three Americans.

China urged Malaysia to speed up the search for the plane.

"This incident happened more than two days ago, and we hope that the Malaysians can fully understand the urgency of China, especially of the family members, and can step up the speed of the investigation and increase efforts on search and rescue," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters in Beijing.

A senior source involved in preliminary investigations in Malaysia said the failure to find any debris indicated the plane may have broken up mid-flight, which could disperse wreckage over a very wide area.

"The fact that we are unable to find any debris so far appears to indicate that the aircraft is likely to have disintegrated at around 35,000 feet," said the source.

Asked about the possibility of an explosion, the source said there was no evidence of foul play and that the aircraft could have broken up due to mechanical causes.

Still, the source said the closest parallels were the bomb explosions on board an Air India jetliner in 1985 when it was over the Atlantic Ocean and a Pan Am aircraft over the Scottish town of Lockerbie in 1988. Both planes were cruising at around 31,000 feet at the time.

The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a U.S. government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough.

MOSS-COVERED CABLE REEL

Hopes for a breakthrough rose briefly when Vietnam scrambled helicopters to investigate a floating yellow object it was thought could have been a life raft. But the country's Civil Aviation Authority said on its website that the object turned out to be a "moss-covered cap of a cable reel".

Flight MH370 disappeared from radar screens in the early hours of Saturday, about an hour into its flight from Kuala Lumpur, after climbing to a cruising altitude of 35,000 ft.

Underlining the lack of hard information about the plane's fate, a U.S. Navy P-3 aircraft capable of covering 1,500 sq miles every hour was sweeping the northern part of the Strait of Malacca, on the other side of the Malaysian peninsula from where the last contact with MH370 was made.

No distress signal was sent from the lost plane, which experts said suggested a sudden catastrophic failure or explosion, but Malaysia's air force chief said radar tracking showed it may have turned back from its scheduled route before it disappeared.

The Boeing 777 has one of the best safety records of any commercial aircraft in service. Its only previous fatal crash came on July 6 last year when Asiana Airlines Flight 214 struck a seawall on landing in San Francisco, killing three people.

The passenger manifest issued by the airline included the names of two Europeans - Austrian Christian Kozel and Italian Luigi Maraldi - who were not on the plane. Their passports had been stolen in Thailand during the past two years.

An Interpol spokeswoman said a check of all documents used to board the plane had revealed more "suspect passports", which were being investigated.

"Whilst it is too soon to speculate about any connection between these stolen passports and the missing plane, it is clearly of great concern that any passenger was able to board an international flight using a stolen passport listed in Interpol's databases," Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said.

A European diplomat in Kuala Lumpur cautioned that the Malaysian capital was an Asian hub for illegal migrants, many of whom used false documents and complex routes including via Beijing or West Africa to reach a final destination in Europe.

"You shouldn't automatically think that the fact there were two people on the plane with false passports had anything to do with the disappearance of the plane," the diplomat said.

"The more you know about the role of Kuala Lumpur in this chain, the more doubtful you are of the chances of a linkage."

A Thai travel agent who arranged the tickets for the two passengers using the stolen passports said she had booked them on the flight via Beijing because they were the cheapest tickets, the Financial Times reported.

The travel agent in the resort of Pattaya said an Iranian business contact she knew only as "Mr Ali" had asked her to book tickets for the two men on March 1.

She had initially booked them on other airlines but those reservations expired and on March 6, Mr Ali had asked her to book them again. She told the newspaper she did not think Mr Ali, who paid her in cash and booked tickets with her regularly, was linked to terrorism.
 
Hunt for Mr Ali: Mystery Iranian businessman 'bought tickets used by men on stolen passports' who boarded doomed Malaysian Airlines flight to China

-Search teams still unable to find trace of missing Malaysia Airlines plane
-Searches taking place in South China Sea where last contact was made
-U.S. led search meanwhile is also taking place near Andaman Sea
-Interpol investigating whether up to four passengers had stolen passports
-Men who used stolen passports not of Asian appearance, investigators say
-Five passengers also checked on to flight but did not board plane
-China has urged Malaysia to step up search as it also sends rescue teams
-Thai travel agent says Iranian businessman booked tickets for the two stolen passport passengers

An Iranian businessman known only as Mr Ali is understood to have booked the tickets for the two passengers using the stolen passports of the missing Malaysian Airlines plane, it has emerged.
Authorities had today still found no trace of the missing plane despite searches by ships from six navies and dozens of military aircraft.
A Thai travel agent who arranged the tickets for the two passengers has now said she had booked them on the flight via Beijing because they were the cheapest tickets, it has been reported.
The travel agent in the resort of Pattaya said an Iranian business contact she knew only as 'Mr Ali' had asked her to book tickets for the two men on March 1.
She had initially booked them on other airlines but those reservations expired and on March 6, Mr Ali had asked her to book them again.


She told the Financial Times she did not think Mr Ali, who paid her in cash and booked tickets with her regularly, was linked to terrorism.
The massive search is mainly in a 50-nautical mile radius from where the last contact with the plane was made, midway between Malaysia's east coast and the southern tip of Vietnam.
A U.S. led search meanwhile is also taking place hundreds of miles away on the other side of the Malaysian peninsula.

The search was stepped up for debris and clues, as police today revealed the two men who boarded the plane with stolen passports were not of Asian appearance
Malaysia's civil aviation chief said today that the search for the Boeing 777 which vanished early Saturday morning had failed to find anything and that a sighting of a yellow object, which was earlier suspected to have been a life raft, was found to be a false alarm.
It has now also been confirmed an oil slick suspected of coming from the wreckage was not jet fuel.

Underlining the lack of hard information about the plane's fate, a U.S. Navy P-3 aircraft capable of covering 1,500 sq miles every hour was sweeping the northern part of the Strait of Malacca, on the other side of the Malaysian peninsula from where the last contact with MH370 was made.
'Our aircraft are able to clearly detect small debris in the water, but so far it has all been trash or wood,' said U.S. 7th Fleet spokesman Commander William Marks in an emailed statement.
As Interpol investigates whether up to four passengers boarded the plane using stolen passports, it was today revealed five passengers checked on to the flight but did not board the plane. Their baggage was removed before it departed.
The Boeing 777 went missing early on Saturday morning on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board.
Malaysia's civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman described the disappearance of the plane as an 'unprecedented aviation mystery'.
He said a hijacking could not be ruled out as investigators explore all theories for the loss of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

'Unfortunately we have not found anything that appears to be objects from the aircraft, let alone the aircraft,' he told a news conference.
'As far as we are concerned, we have to find the aircraft, we have to find a piece of the aircraft if possible.'
As dozens of ships and aircraft from seven countries scour the seas around Malaysia and south of Vietnam, questions mounted over possible security lapses and whether a bomb or hijacking could have brought down the Boeing airliner.
Malaysia has expanded the search to its west coast after theories that the plane may have turned back toward Kuala Lumpur for some reason. A total of 34 aircraft and 40 ships from 10 nations are involved in the search.
The U.S. 7th Fleet has sent a P-3C Orion surveillance plane from its base in Okinawa, Japan, and the USS Pinckney destroyer that is equipped with two MH-60R Seahawk helicopters for search and rescue.
The Orion was used for more than three hours on Sunday, sweeping about 4,000 sq km every hour. It is equipped with the APS-147, an advanced radar system that can identify a soccer ball bobbing in the water from hundreds of feet in the air.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gers-checked-never-boarded.html#ixzz2vaCxEHzo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Something catastrophic obviously happened. Even if they experienced in flight problems I'm sure distress signals would have gone off at some control center. Whatever happened, it happened immediately without warning or time to react.

As far as not being able to find it, that doesn't seem too out of the ordinary. The Air France flight that crashed in 2009 from Rio to Paris took 2 years to find the actual wreckage.

When an Air France jetliner disappeared from radar and plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009, a daunting search-and-rescue operation ensued.

Bodies and debris from the Rio de Janeiro-to-Paris flight emerged in the days and weeks following the crash, but investigators took nearly two years to retrieve the main wreckage and "black boxes" from Flight 447.

As a massive multinational effort to find the missing Malaysia Airlines jet coalesces over the next few days, aircraft experts warn that the search will be a costly and complicated one. Indeed, it wouldn't be uncommon for several days to pass before searchers found any wreckage of the aircraft floating on the ocean.

If a plane goes down in very deep water — as the Air France flight did — the search is that much more difficult.

"The deeper you get, the harder it is to see," says Jim Hall, president of consulting firm Hall & Associates and former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board.

Search-and-recovery workers have to deal with basic challenges such as locating the downed craft and more complex issues such as navigating the ocean terrain below the surface.

"It's very expensive and very technical work," says Hall. "Trying to get the proper people assembled usually takes quite a bit of time."

Malaysia Airlines said sea and air searches are ongoing for the plane, which was carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing when it disappeared early Saturday local time. More than 24 hours after last contact with the plane, there was still no sign of wreckage, the airline said. No emergency signals or distress messages were received before the plane vanished from radar.

MORE: 2 on missing plane had stolen passports

The Vietnamese government reported Saturday that oil slicks — thought to be from the missing aircraft — were spotted between Malaysia and Vietnam. The airline did not provide any information on that report.
Adding to the search difficulties, the plane could be located across a wide swath of land or water, in many pieces large and small.

"You can't be sure that all the wreckage will be in one location," said Hall, who oversaw past ocean recoveries during his NTSB tenure. "There's a possibility that the wreckage could be scattered."

As of Saturday ET, search-and-rescue teams from China, the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam were among the groups seeking the missing twin-engine jet. The USS Pinckney, a destroyer in the Navy's 7th Fleet, was headed to the southern coast of Vietnam to aid in the search efforts.

STORY: U.S. joins search for jet

Such search-and-recovery missions are incredibly expensive undertakings, costing millions and even billions of dollars, says John Cox, a retired airline captain who runs the aviation safety consulting company Safety Operating Systems.

A large percentage of the cost is paid by insurance, he says, but other parties — such as governments, plane manufacturers and airlines — could also foot part of the bill.

Regarding the Malaysia Airline flight, "They know the track that the airline was on and had been flying, so they had a baseline from which to start" the search, says Cox.

The initial search will focus on the surface of the ocean, he says. And then it will move to underwater sonar and other techniques.

As for the cause of the crash, investigators "will look at human factors, technical factors, systematic and operational factors" to "evaluate what chain of events led to this tragedy."

An aviation lawyer who worked on cases with problems similar to the Malaysia Airlines disaster says the lack of warnings about a problem aboard the Malaysia Airline flight suggest a catastrophic failure during flight.

Steve Marks, who represented relatives of victims in the Air France crash, said the Malaysia Airlines plane should have relayed reports of any problems — if there were any – as the jet did in the Air France case. That Air France Airbus A-330 signaled flight errors to the manufacturer's headquarters in France.

A lack of such reports is why Marks speculates that there was a catastrophic failure, perhaps the plane breaking up from a lack of pressurization or from a complete electrical failure.

"There would have been some type of reporting, whether through the radios or the computer system," Marks said. "The complete absence of any information suggests a catastrophic failure."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/08/malaysia-airlines-search/6203017/
 
How does a 777 disappear for almost 3 days? :confused:


tumblr_m9hqiuFSbj1qzdk4i.jpg
 
Why don't planes have real time data transponders? It's bizarre that with the technology we have today that we are still using those archaic black boxes.
 
Why don't planes have real time data transponders? It's bizarre that with the technology we have today that we are still using those archaic black boxes.

This is a travel-based industry that charges its customers extra for freaking luggage. Additionally, when is the last time you flew and thought, "This plane looks like it was built in the past decade"?

These assholes entirely too cheap to spring for technological improvements.
 
This is a travel-based industry that charges its customers extra for freaking luggage. Additionally, when is the last time you flew and thought, "This plane looks like it was built in the past decade"?

These assholes entirely too cheap to spring for technological improvements.

That's total BS.

airline-profit-margin.jpg


According to a recent Time magazine article, airlines will make about $5.94 per passenger in 2014 — a profit margin of 2.6 percent, down from 3.3 percent in 2010. If you've never operated a business before, you have no idea how small of a profit margin that is. And a quick look at the chart I posted shows that since 1990 the airline industry has actually LOST money.

In 1979 the average round-trip domestic plane ticket cost $442.88. In 2012 the average cost had fallen to $283.97. During this time, fuel costs increased from $0.66 per gallon to $3.08 per gallon. Then you have the increased pay for workers over the same period. Increased costs of benefits, insurance, etc.

And you still get bitchers like the Jack Brickmans of the world who claim that the airlines are too cheap. Nevermind the fact that operating costs have risen significantly while the price of a ticket has FALLEN.

What do you suggest they do? Raise ticket prices to pay for a new fleet every few years? Yeah, then you'll have the Jack Brickmans of the world complaining how greedy those evil, rich corporate jackasses are.
 
Holy shit!!! Read the bolded part. I had no clue it would be that expensive.

Why Do Airlines Keep ‘Black Box’ Flight Data Trapped on Planes?
By Justin Bachman March 10, 2014


The flight data recorder from the 2009 Air France flight that went down in the mid-Atlantic, found in 2011
To solve the mystery of what happened to Malaysia Airlines (MAS:MK) Flight MH370, investigators need the airplane’s data and voice recorders. In an airplane tragedy, however, the information stored in the so-called black box inevitably ends up inside a wreck. This seems like a terrible place to keep the clue you need to find most.

As investigators scour the Gulf of Thailand and waters as far north as Hong Kong for debris from the Boeing (BA) 777-200 that vanished en route to Beijing on Saturday, there’s almost no indication yet of what doomed the flight and the 239 passengers on board. So far, at least, no wreckage or jet fuel has been found. Without recovering the black box, there’s little way to know what caused a plane cruising at 35,000 feet to disappear from radar.

Why not transmit this flight data off the plane so it’s accessible almost instantly? Airlines, after all, track each of their flights everywhere in the world and can advise crews on course adjustments, security alerts, quick weather changes, and a host of other situations. Passengers are routinely offered in-air Wi-Fi and live television these days. So why keep vital data trapped on the plane?

The answer is mostly about one issue: cost. Sending all the data from each flight in real time via satellite would be enormously expensive. A 2002 study by L-3 Aviation Recorders (LLL) and a satellite provider found that a U.S. airline flying a global network would need to spend $300 million per year to transmit all its flight data, even assuming a 50 percent reduction in future satellite transmission costs. And that’s just a single airline. Commercial airline disasters, meanwhile, are becoming even more uncommon as technology and techniques improve—in part thanks to lessons from past crashes—so there’s little incentive for investing heavily in real-time data.

Businessweek last explored this question in July 2009 as French and Brazilian authorities searched a wide section of the Atlantic Ocean for a missing Air France (AF:FP) flight. The data recorders aboard the Airbus (AIR:FP) A330 remained missing for almost two years, some 2 miles beneath the surface, before searchers finally recovered them.

If the Malaysia Airlines flight did go down at sea, as searchers believe, waters in the suspected crash area are much shallower than in the region of the Atlantic where the French jet went down. In both cases, meanwhile, the flight data and cockpit voice recorders were made by Honeywell (HON) Aerospace. Despite the conventional term “black box,” the Honeywell recorders and most others in use are actually bright orange in color.

Of course, there remains the possibility that a powerful enough calamity could have obliterated the data boxes on the Malaysia flight, leaving investigators without their best hope for discovering what went wrong. No data recorders were ever recovered from the two Boeing airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center.
 
What do you suggest they do? Raise ticket prices to pay for a new fleet every few years? Yeah, then you'll have the Jack Brickmans of the world complaining how greedy those evil, rich corporate jackasses are.

There's only one Jack Brickman in the world, and he'll complain about what he damn well wants to.
 
These assholes entirely too cheap to spring for technological improvements.

I can assure you that over the course of my 15-year airline/aviation career, the last thing being skimped on is "technological improvements" or public safety.

Sorry we took the pillow and pretzels. The public lost it's right to amenities right around the time they began showing up for their flights wearing sweatpants and flip-flops.
 
Something catastrophic obviously happened. Even if they experienced in flight problems I'm sure distress signals would have gone off at some control center. Whatever happened, it happened immediately without warning or time to react.

As far as not being able to find it, that doesn't seem too out of the ordinary. The Air France flight that crashed in 2009 from Rio to Paris took 2 years to find the actual wreckage.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/08/malaysia-airlines-search/6203017/


They found debris from AF447 within a couple days of the crash. It wasn't for a couple years before they found the main wreckage and FDR and CVR. This was mainly due to the fact that the wreckage was in what was essentially an underwater mountain range over a mile deep. That hasn't been the case with this crash, and it is especially mind boggling since the water depth is significantly shallower in this case. The Air France plane also was sending ACARS (essentially automatic messaging) messages signifying that there were major problems with speed sensors and vertical speed. For whatever reason, it doesn't appear that the Malaysian plane was equipped the same, it literally just vanished.

I've been following this very closely. Its definitely the most bizarre aviation accident I can recall.
 
They found debris from AF447 within a couple days of the crash. It wasn't for a couple years before they found the main wreckage and FDR and CVR. This was mainly due to the fact that the wreckage was in what was essentially an underwater mountain range over a mile deep. That hasn't been the case with this crash, and it is especially mind boggling since the water depth is significantly shallower in this case. The Air France plane also was sending ACARS (essentially automatic messaging) messages signifying that there were major problems with speed sensors and vertical speed. For whatever reason, it doesn't appear that the Malaysian plane was equipped the same, it literally just vanished.

I've been following this very closely. Its definitely the most bizarre aviation accident I can recall.

Correct, that's what the USA Today article said. It took them 2 years to find the main part of the wreckage and recover the black box.

It seems this plane experienced a catastrophic event without warning. Either it was shot down or exploded from the inside. I just can't see any other explanation of why there were no warning signs leading up to the crash.
 
It seems to me that the plane had to have kept flying after whatever major malfunction/event occurred. Its obviously not where it should be. They were just saying on CNN that they are extending the search to the Western coast of Malaysia, implying that the plane turned around (as some are speculating) and flew all the way across the entire country. And that seems difficult that the aircraft could do that without notifying ATC, or avoiding primary radar.

This is truly a giant mystery.
 

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