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Obama to cut medical benefits for active/retired military, but not union workers

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Marcus, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. Marcus

    Marcus Let's go Cabs!

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    http://m.examiner.com/conservative-...for-active-retired-military-not-union-workers

    Count me into the group that's going to be fucking livid if this passes. I'm already having a hard enough time paying my bills without my health insurance rates getting jacked the fuck up by the morons in DC.
     
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  2. Cratylus

    Cratylus Brunette Connoisseur

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    Hope and Change, man. Hope and Change.
     
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  3. Chris

    Chris Welcome to the Future

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    What the fuck?
     
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  4. OnTheReg

    OnTheReg G.O.A.T.

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    Unions vote en masse for Democrats, and donate millions every year to their campaign coffers. The military...doesn't. So, that's that.
     
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  5. Cratylus

    Cratylus Brunette Connoisseur

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    C'mon... this doesn't actually surprise you, does it?
     
  6. Chris

    Chris Welcome to the Future

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    Wish that made it right.
     
  7. Cratylus

    Cratylus Brunette Connoisseur

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    It's sad really... if the whole notion of government dependency didn't exist what exactly would the Democrat party platform consist of?
     
  8. OnTheReg

    OnTheReg G.O.A.T.

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    Well, right now their platform consists of 1) encouraging government dependancy, and 2) continuing government dependancy. So, if government dependancy didn't exist, I guess their platform would only consist of the former.
     
  9. jlj3184

    jlj3184 Gold Star Member

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    This article is filled with a lot of exaggeration. I just read the AF Times article on the Tricare hikes last week and it's not that bad. I'll try and track down the article to show the actual numbers...don't see it in our common area anymore.

    The last line of the article clearly shows the author's bias.

    **EDIT**

    Tracked down the chart. Can be viewed here.

    For reference here is a military pay chart for 2012. For simplicity sake, military retirement works like this: you can retire at 20 years and receive half your pay. For each year you work over 20, you receive 2.5% on top of that 50% (i.e. work 25 years, receive 62.5% of your base pay as retirement). By 20 years, most people in the AF have made either E-7 or E-8, while most officers have made either O-5 or O-6.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  10. OnTheReg

    OnTheReg G.O.A.T.

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    With or without exaggeration, though, it's a fucking crime to increase costs to our military families while allowing the unions to skate. Military families shouldn't really have to pay anything as far as I'm concerned, and the fact that we're set to INCREASE their costs is bullshit.
     
  11. Marcus

    Marcus Let's go Cabs!

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    Not as bad if that chart's accurate. Still sucks that we are the ones that end up paying because the government can't get their shit straight.
     
  12. jlj3184

    jlj3184 Gold Star Member

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    Someone who retires today as an O-5 after 20 years will be making $4,100/month or $49,200/year at the age of 42 (20 years after college graduation). They'll pay about 4% of their annual salary for health care. The average family paid $13,375 for health care in 2009 and I'd imagine it's closer to $15k annually now.

    An E-7 retiring at 20 years will be making $2,128/month or $25,536/year at the age of 37 or 38 (20 years after enlistment). They'll pay about 6% of their annual salary for health care.

    Most people who retire from the military don't "retire", either. It usually leads into a high-paying job as a CIVILIAN DEFENSE WORKER or a government contractor.

    Again, article makes it out to be way worse than it actually is.
     
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  13. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member

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    If you take a look at funding for Obama's Campaign from 2008 and now in 2012, you will see that financial union support has been pulled for the most part, especially when compared to big financial institutions and universities/higher education.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/obama-campaign-fundraising_n_901569.html

    http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638


    Whenever people want to start a thread that point a finger at Goldman Sachs for trying to buy the presidency, I'm all aboard with Obama-bashing!
     
  14. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    Don't come into this thread and bring these silly "facts" and "logic"...down with Obama!
     
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  15. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    If it government assistance didn't exist, what would we have done when the economy tanked? I guess when you don't experience it, it's easy to paint it broadly as government dependency.
     
  16. jlj3184

    jlj3184 Gold Star Member

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    This shouldn't be a political issue, which was a point I didn't really make but should have. There is a HUGE discrepancy between what veterans pay for their health care and what the rest of the country pays. This rate increase doesn't change that fact, it just shrinks the discrepancy while saving the government a decent chunk of change in the process. People are always complaining about the high budget/deficit (on both sides of the aisle) and then when something actually gets done to save money, it's automatically a terrible idea unless it's cutting government programs (Right) or raising taxes (Left).
     
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  17. bob2the2nd

    bob2the2nd member 32

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    and this, they try to make an example out of a retired colonel who is paying all of 450ish dollars/year for his family to have health insurance and complaining it could go up to 2000, quite frankly, im glad its changing.

    My job centers around working for either current or former military, you want to know what everyone's goal in the military is? to get to 20 years and retire, so they can "double dip". They retire from the military, collect that pay and immediately become a govt contractor or govt civilian. i work with a retired colonel who is now the civilian equivalent of a 1 star. his salary at his current job runs between 150-200k, his retired salary is in the 50-75k range. i have absolutely huge amounts of respect for all of these people that have served, but they can and should pay a lot more than 400 dollars a year in health insurance

    edit i know a guy that is triple dipping. did 20 years military then retired, 20 years govt civilian then retired, now he is a part time govt civilian (you can work up to 1000 hours in a year and still be considered a retired govt civilian).
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  18. InBoobieWeTrust

    InBoobieWeTrust Savior of Humanity Staff Member

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    My main concern here is that when deciding to cut defense spending, I really don't think cutting healthcare funding for any current or former military should be targeted so early. Surely there are a ton of other things we can cut in terms of military besides frieken health care benefits.
     
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  19. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member

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    In many ways, I agree. There are plenty of older veterans who will feel this financial change the most: likely Korean War and Vietnam War vets.

    One logical progression that tends to turn my stomach in debates such as this is, "Well, why do the __________ get to have this? The average American in a low-level corporate job doesn't have _____________, so why should they?" I know I have a brother-in-law who is just about to leave active duty in the Marines... and the health benefits were one reason he risked his life for the past four years in a war zone. It's like if suddenly the G.I. Bill was cut to cover only 70% of tuition. I'm sure someone would stand up and say, "Hey, I was an assistant manager at a Speedway for four years and I had to pay my own way in college and struggled with health insurance. Why does the veteran get all the perks?" Ummmm, because the perks are the reason he joined the armed forces.

    So that said, I understand that everyone has to tighten their belts in this economy. I just hope that the corporations can start building the economy back up so that all these working stiffs can get back what we are giving up. If all the savings from these moves - the unions making concessions and military giving up benefits they risked their lives for - continue to keep the standard of living high at the top of the tax bracket, the changes are a waste.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  20. Chris

    Chris Welcome to the Future

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    I don't care what the fuck you do if you serve 20 years in the military and retire. It's evil that they give 20 years of their life to service of this country and then come out and make a lot of cash?

    Good lord.
     

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