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On the state of mainstream rock and alternative rock

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I'm trying to think of the last big hits for a lot of "mainstream", "everyone had their t-shirt/went to their concerts/watched them on MTV" acts. Meaning...they predate 2000 or so.

I'm trying to "guess" what a WRQK/WMMS playlist would be. (I swear I've heard "Synchroncity II" on WMMS.)

Aerosmith- Jaded, 2001
Van Halen- Me Wise Magic, 1996/Without You, 1998 (Don't know whether to "count" Gary Cherone)
Led Zeppelin/Page/Plant-Most High, 1998
Nirvana- About a Girl, 1994/You Know You're Right, 2002
Soundgarden-Blow Up The Outside World, 1996
Pearl Jam- Given to Fly, 1998
Alice in Chains-Heaven Besides You, 1996
Pink Floyd- High Hopes, 1994
Motley Crue-Don't Go Away Mad, 1990
Guns N' Roses- Sympathy for the Devil, 1994
Rush- Test for Echo, 1996
John Mellancamp- Peaceful World, 2001
Sting/The Police- Desert Rose, 2000
The Eagles-Get Over It, 1994
Smashing Pumpkins-Ava Adore, 1998
Rage Against the Machine-Renegades of Funk 2001
Tom Petty- You Don't Know How it Feels, 1994
Rolling Stones-Love is Strong, 1994
Bruce Springsteen- Secret Garden, 1997
Ozzy/Black Sabbath-Dreamer, 2001
AC/DC- Stiff Upper Lip, 2000

RHCP, Weezer, U2, Green Day are pretty much "ongoing" at this point. The quality of a few of their recent singles are up for debate.

For cross reference? These are the first time a lot of the groups that are currently on the mainstream rock charts first had a big single

Shinedown- 45, 2003
Disturbed- Down with the Sickness, 2000
Godsmack-Voodoo, 2000
Papa Roach-Last Resort, 2000
Five Finger Death Punch- Bad Company, 2010
Halestorm- I Get Off, 2009
Slipknot-Duality, 2004
Three Days Grace- I Hate Everything About You, 2003
Chevelle- The Red, 2002
KoRn-Got the Life, 1998
Staind- It's Been AWhile, 2001
Creed-Higher, 2001
Nickelback-How You Remind Me, 2001
Seether-Broken, 2004
Puddle of Mudd-Blurry, 2001
Breaking Benjaimin-So Cold, 2004
Fuel-Shimmer, 1998

So it appears that a lot of the more popular acts began to see a few artists disappear around 1994 or so. It really "picked up" from 1996 until around 2001.

Flipside? KoRn and Fuel were the first around 1998.

Then from 2000 until 2004? A lot of their partners in crime "joined up" and that's why we seem to be where we are now.
 
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They are heavily influenced by both that blue-collar rock embodied by Bruce Springsteen and the electro-pop influence of the Pet Shop Boys. Hot Fuss is an amazing album and it is remarkable that this band came out of nowhere fully formed with some of the catchiest tunes of the new century.

Everyone knows Mr. Brightside or Somebody Told Me.

Others attempted that fusion in the 2000s but mostly failed. The Killers were ahead of their time considering how many artists now incorporate that techno-pop sound emanating from the late-80s sound that was primarily defined by PSB and Depeche Mode.

When The Killers came out, they were a polished local band in Vegas. That first album was their life's work. That has been an issue for a lot of bands along the way. They put six or seven years into getting noticed, then once they break into the collective conciousness they have to figure out how to pop out another great album within about two years. That is a lot of pressure. I'm hopeful Of Monsters and Men don't fall into the same category.

The loss of the bass player for Mumford and Sons to a nasty brain anyuerism was a blow to rock music. They had broken out, then a part of the band was broken. I was glad the wife talked me into seeing them a few months before his condition.

Imagine Dragons, The Lumineers, and a few others look like they have the chops to keep rock going. Unfortunately I bet the highest selling rock songs this year will probably be Queen songs rediscovered.

David is right about dance music and electronic taking over. I remember Trent Reznor explaining why he stopped doing work with NIN and switched to electronic music. He basically said he didn't see younger fans watching the headliners at music festivals, they were in the DJ tents. So he changed course on his music vision. That's just how it goes, some things aren't meant to last forever.
 
I'm trying to think of the last big hits for a lot of "mainstream", "everyone had their t-shirt/went to their concerts/watched them on MTV" acts. Meaning...they predate 2000 or so.

I'm trying to "guess" what a WRQK/WMMS playlist would be. (I swear I've heard "Synchroncity II" on WMMS.)

Aerosmith- Jaded, 2001
Van Halen- Me Wise Magic, 1996/Without You, 1998 (Don't know whether to "count" Gary Cherone)
Led Zeppelin/Page/Plant-Most High, 1998
Nirvana- About a Girl, 1994/You Know You're Right, 2002
Soundgarden-Blow Up The Outside World, 1996
Pearl Jam- Given to Fly, 1998
Alice in Chains-Heaven Besides You, 1996
Pink Floyd- High Hopes, 1994
Motley Crue-Don't Go Away Mad, 1990
Guns N' Roses- Sympathy for the Devil, 1994
Rush- Test for Echo, 1996
John Mellancamp- Peaceful World, 2001
Sting/The Police- Desert Rose, 2000
The Eagles-Get Over It, 1994
Smashing Pumpkins-Ava Adore, 1998
Rage Against the Machine-Renegades of Funk 2001
Tom Petty- You Don't Know How it Feels, 1994
Rolling Stones-Love is Strong, 1994
Bruce Springsteen- Secret Garden, 1997
Ozzy/Black Sabbath-Dreamer, 2001
AC/DC- Stiff Upper Lip, 2000

RHCP, Weezer, U2, Green Day are pretty much "ongoing" at this point. The quality of a few of their recent singles are up for debate.

For cross reference? These are the first time a lot of the groups that are currently on the mainstream rock charts first had a big single

Shinedown- 45, 2003
Disturbed- Down with the Sickness, 2000
Godsmack-Voodoo, 2000
Papa Roach-Last Resort, 2000
Five Finger Death Punch- Bad Company, 2010
Halestorm- I Get Off, 2009
Slipknot-Duality, 2004
Three Days Grace- I Hate Everything About You, 2003
Chevelle- The Red, 2002
KoRn-Got the Life, 1998
Staind- It's Been AWhile, 2001
Creed-Higher, 2001
Nickelback-How You Remind Me, 2001
Seether-Broken, 2004
Puddle of Mudd-Blurry, 2001
Breaking Benjaimin-So Cold, 2004
Fuel-Shimmer, 1998

So it appears that a lot of the more popular acts began to see a few artists disappear around 1994 or so. It really "picked up" from 1996 until around 2001.

Flipside? KoRn and Fuel were the first around 1998.

Then from 2000 until 2004? A lot of their partners in crime "joined up" and that's why we seem to be where we are now.
I guess I'm not sure with what you're taking issue. Good music still exists, but things have happened to make where you find it and what you find easier change.
 
I guess I'm not sure with what you're taking issue. Good music still exists, but things have happened to make where you find it and what you find easier change.

It does. I saw quite a few great acts this year and we're discussing quite a few already.

It's not so much taking issue as it is trying to figure out where things on the mainstream side of the aisle took a turn.

Example? 2000-2005ish, some great records were indeed being made. The Killers, Arcade Fire, My Chemical Romance, The Strokes, Jack White/White Stripes...all of those bands had good records. Yet...their presence doesn't seem to show up as it does among music fans, posters, bars on your local "active rock" station.

It's trying to figure out why there's this large of a divide at this point, and why the mainstream rock charts pretty much got hijacked by "alternative metal"*/"post grunge"

*which is neither "alternative" or "metal"
 
It does. I saw quite a few great acts this year and we're discussing quite a few already.

It's not so much taking issue as it is trying to figure out where things on the mainstream side of the aisle took a turn.

Example? 2000-2005ish, some great records were indeed being made. The Killers, Arcade Fire, My Chemical Romance, The Strokes, Jack White/White Stripes...all of those bands had good records. Yet...their presence doesn't seem to show up as it does among music fans, posters, bars on your local "active rock" station.

It's trying to figure out why there's this large of a divide at this point, and why the mainstream rock charts pretty much got hijacked by "alternative metal"*/"post grunge"

*which is neither "alternative" or "metal"
What's the fascination with charts and the radio tho?
 
What's the fascination with charts and the radio tho?

Eh. Being candid?

I know this sounds stupid, but I have a bit of an ax to grind with what gave us this sort of stuff. Felt like I was let down growing up in the "Rock N' Roll Capital" and the only "new" music that was being offered was well, that.

It's kind of like seeing the Browns being "godawful" in a way.
 
Why do you suppose things have moved away from bands with brilliant peers in them?

Do you think that the reorganization of schools in the late 90s and 2000s that began prioritizing test-taking at the expense of art and music programs may have thinned the candidate pool for potential artists?

Not really -- I don't think most of the great rockers got their starts because of middle school/high school art or music programs. And I think the quality started dropping before that would have had an impact anyway.

I think there are a bunch of reasons why rock music isn't as big as it used to be, with the advent of the music video being a big one of those. Essentially, music started becoming as much about what you saw as what you heard (and please, nobody mention the musical abomination that was the Buggles), and supply follows demand. Being danceable also became more important, and that further reduced the demand for great rock bands that didn't want to play in 4/4 time.
 
I think there are a bunch of reasons why rock music isn't as big as it used to be, with the advent of the music video being a big one of those.

To an extent? MTV actually did help a lot of middle america be introduced to acts that otherwise would have been relegated to college radio and playing CGBG's/Whiskey A Go Go.

There's a VH1 special (that's rather bias towards the viacom's impact, but whatever) about how FM radio itself had become rather stagnant due to using survey's and focus groups in terms of picking playlists. MTV came along and wound up playing a lot of unplayed "New Wave" and British bands at the time.

By 2000 or so? It was pretty much dead.

Also a friend shared me this link

https://music.avclub.com/did-1997-contain-the-worst-two-weeks-in-music-history-1798265017
 
To an extent? MTV actually did help a lot of middle america be introduced to acts that otherwise would have been relegated to college radio and playing CGBG's/Whiskey A Go Go.

There's a VH1 special (that's rather bias towards the viacom's impact, but whatever) about how FM radio itself had become rather stagnant due to using survey's and focus groups in terms of picking playlists. MTV came along and wound up playing a lot of unplayed "New Wave" and British bands at the time.

By 2000 or so? It was pretty much dead.

Also a friend shared me this link

https://music.avclub.com/did-1997-contain-the-worst-two-weeks-in-music-history-1798265017

MTV stopped playing music as its staple.

Yeah, in the 2000s you still had TRL, and after-hours wherein they'd play music, but its primetime viewing was reality shows and other programming aimed at teenagers and college kids.
 
SoundCloud and Spotify have really helped facilitate curation of music and giving platforms to kids to get their content out.

Ps Mars Volta were absolute fucking beasts.

Prodigy were pretty fucking jmpactful and may be the missing link between 4ock and what you see today
 
SoundCloud and Spotify have really helped facilitate curation of music and giving platforms to kids to get their content out.

Ps Mars Volta were absolute fucking beasts.

Prodigy were pretty fucking jmpactful and may be the missing link between 4ock and what you see today

It took about a decade for the "online" as a music format to really take off, but it has been a great asset.

I think that's part of the reason the 2000s was a bit of a culture wasteland music wise.

-MTV was pretty much gone.
-There was peer 2 peer, but that was still rather primitive compared to modern services
-All of the great acts were done releasing singles by the early 2000s
-"The merchants of cool"/Focus groups were underway

I mean..."Discovery" by Daft Punk is probably my pick for "best album" of the 2000-2009, but the hilarious thing was none of the tracks received heavy airplay. It was Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network airing the videos due to them being an Anime.

Once Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, Soundcloud all became things in the aftermath of the Napster? Things took off.
 
It took about a decade for the "online" as a music format to really take off, but it has been a great asset.

I think that's part of the reason the 2000s was a bit of a culture wasteland music wise.

-MTV was pretty much gone.
-There was peer 2 peer, but that was still rather primitive compared to modern services
-All of the great acts were done releasing singles by the early 2000s
-"The merchants of cool"/Focus groups were underway

I mean..."Discovery" by Daft Punk is probably my pick for "best album" of the 2000-2009, but the hilarious thing was none of the tracks received heavy airplay. It was Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network airing the videos due to them being an Anime.

Once Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, Soundcloud all became things in the aftermath of the Napster? Things took off.
Honestly I think Napster and the death of MTV killed shit for awhile but yea long run its going to be great for music.

Labels had agendas and only pushed so many acts. There are fucking thousands of bands that are easily accessible now.

And equipment became less expensive and easier to use and people learned how to use it all.
 
This is a bit of a thing, but it's something I've thought about quite often.
1.) Kurt Cobain killed Heavy Metal/Hard Rock
2.) After Kurt Cobain died? People chose Hip-Hop/Pop over Hard Rock/Heavy Metal. Hence why it died.

First off? I don't think the 90's Grunge movement explicitly killed the 80's Glam scene. While I think Poison and Warrant were pretty much toast? Motley Crue and GN'R would have been able to survive past that point.
But it didn't exactly help that each band split up by 1994, now did it?
Hell, Van Halen and Aerosmith were creating hit records, songs well into the mid 90's. Not to mention other acts like Pantera, Metallica, etc were still getting airplay/beloved by similar groups of fans.

Why are you [heavy metal fan] mad at the likes of Cobain, Corgan, Staley, Cornell, etc for introducing a new form of hard rock? One that is a mix of bands like Husker Du, The Cure, The Replacements and some of the hard rock of the 70's?
If anything it was pretty much a "3rd wave" of alternative and punk that has existed since the very time period heavy metal was actually created. There's a linear connection between MC5, The Stooges, The Ramones, The Talking Heads all the way to Nirvana. None of this is new.

To the 2nd point? Again...It wasn't as if MTV just had Kurt Loder go on air in April of 1994 to go "WELP. IT'S ALL OVER. GUESS WE'LL JUST PLAY MARIAH CAREY AND 2PAC VIDEOS". There were still bands and records being made past that point.

Smashing Pumpkins signature song (1979) was released as a single in 1996. From an album that was from 1995.

If anything? I think one should look at the Woodstock 1999/Family Values Tour groups that came out around the end of the decade. The bands that were promoted during that era had very little staying power, didn't release anything critically acclaimed at the time and were incredibly embarrassing.

It just feels like a lazy talking point.
 
This is a bit of a thing, but it's something I've thought about quite often.
1.) Kurt Cobain killed Heavy Metal/Hard Rock
2.) After Kurt Cobain died? People chose Hip-Hop/Pop over Hard Rock/Heavy Metal. Hence why it died.

First off? I don't think the 90's Grunge movement explicitly killed the 80's Glam scene. While I think Poison and Warrant were pretty much toast? Motley Crue and GN'R would have been able to survive past that point.
But it didn't exactly help that each band split up by 1994, now did it?
Hell, Van Halen and Aerosmith were creating hit records, songs well into the mid 90's. Not to mention other acts like Pantera, Metallica, etc were still getting airplay/beloved by similar groups of fans.

Why are you [heavy metal fan] mad at the likes of Cobain, Corgan, Staley, Cornell, etc for introducing a new form of hard rock? One that is a mix of bands like Husker Du, The Cure, The Replacements and some of the hard rock of the 70's?
If anything it was pretty much a "3rd wave" of alternative and punk that has existed since the very time period heavy metal was actually created. There's a linear connection between MC5, The Stooges, The Ramones, The Talking Heads all the way to Nirvana. None of this is new.

To the 2nd point? Again...It wasn't as if MTV just had Kurt Loder go on air in April of 1994 to go "WELP. IT'S ALL OVER. GUESS WE'LL JUST PLAY MARIAH CAREY AND 2PAC VIDEOS". There were still bands and records being made past that point.

Smashing Pumpkins signature song (1979) was released as a single in 1996. From an album that was from 1995.

If anything? I think one should look at the Woodstock 1999/Family Values Tour groups that came out around the end of the decade. The bands that were promoted during that era had very little staying power, didn't release anything critically acclaimed at the time and were incredibly embarrassing.

It just feels like a lazy talking point.
I actually really like the dumb shit.

Every song is the right song, what matters is the venue. Like Radiohead is critically acclaimed but I don't want to listen to their shit 99% of the time.

Linkin Park, limp bizkit etc were absolutely fucking nuts live, in the gym and blasting over your stereo. Rage was the pinnacle and they got acclaim because they actually had a message and because Tom morello is a virtuoso but frankly a lot of people were fine with the dumbed down versions. I was and am.

So you're not gonna get the same type of writing, but I'm not one to really care. Dumb rock (in the form of some of the new rap) is back and honestly I love it, I'm glad.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMyPHI7mxBo&feature=youtu.be

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuHc6S9qOHM&feature=youtu.be


That's probably the best concert I've been to in my life and it happened in the year 2018. It's the newest iteration of rage and Linkin Park but modernized. I don't care that it's not mars volta.
 
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