On the state of mainstream rock and alternative rock

[David.]

I think Manson was one of the last really intriguing rock acts in some ways.

His music sounds a bit better because it sounded like a 70s glam band with a bit of NIN and Pumpkins mixed in. Additionally? Had a few bits of social commentary thrown in. His performance of the "Beautiful People" to me was the last time I think Rock N'Roll was truly shocking in the tradition it once was.

I don't think he really does the Shock Rock act as much any more. Seems to play his stuff, dress relatively boring and have fun with his crowd.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZWNGy1x7k


one last fun fact about Marilyn Manson btw.

View: https://twitter.com/GallesKraco3/status/1017973643593306117


Yes. He apparently liked the Browns as a kid.

With Greata Van Fleet? I was thinking more so that WRQK/WMMS would play them in the vain that they play a couple of cuts from random acts similiar to that. Kinda why I felt the "Rocklahoma" label would be apt because I could very well see them play such a show.

re: 70s rock fans.

It also feels like it would just be better to go listen to "Rumours", "Rocks", "Toys in the Attic", "Led Zeppelin IV", etc than to bother listening to this group .

To me they even somewhat fail on that level. I mean why listen to a cheap imitation when you can hear the real thing?

If I like a band, it's likely because I like the sound. If there's more of it out there, I'm gonna like it and look for it

I saw manson a handful of years ago and was maybe a top 5 show for me. The toned down version is OK, none of the music is that good anymore but the live shows are good. Would have loved to see him around 1998.antichrist superstar was a legitimately sound record.

When you take away the gimmick though, it kinda falls flat. He'd just like an angsty teen now. His last release was just fucking bad. Not like the musical landscape is exactly lending itself to Marilyn manson now tho.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It also feels like it would just be better to go listen to "Rumours", "Rocks", "Toys in the Attic", "Led Zeppelin IV", etc than to bother listening to this group .

To me they even somewhat fail on that level. I mean why listen to a cheap imitation when you can hear the real thing?

Because we've already heard every decent song by those bands 50 times. If some undiscovered trove of unpublished but good LZ songs was found, I'd love to hear them.

I've only heard a few of GVF's songs, but they do have a ton of energy in them. The guitar player is actually pretty good -- he doesn't just play single notes in the melody.

And they're actually playing real instruments. I personally can't listen to much of what passes for modern music because I'm sick to death of the drum machines and autotuning. So much great music was made by bands that had drummers/percussionists who did shitloads more than just keep time, but that largely seems a lost art nowadays. And I'm not talking about self-indulgent and interminable drum solos, but actual inventiveness in the context of a song.

 

[Triple-S]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...responsible-innovation-music-industry-761049/

hey uh.

Maroon 5 is trash and this is is why I will be avoiding their halftime show.

“Something unique to this band is that we have always looked to hip-hop, R&B, all rhythmic forms of music, from back when we were writing our first album to now. Rock music is nowhere, really,” Levine told Variety. “I don’t know where it is. If it’s around, no one’s invited me to the party. All of the innovation and the incredible things happening in music are in hip-hop. It’s better than everything else. Hip-hop is weird and avant-garde and flawed and real, and that’s why people love it.”

Which "brand" of hip-hop are you referring too?

Because quite a few people in that movement are not fans of mumble rap.

I don't see people like Killer Mike, for example get radio play. (They're doing fine fwiw).

Also you are not invited to the party because you're a hack and a good portion of people were done with your brand of VH1/Soccer Mom Pop music in 2005. (me personally? I was done hearing your whiney voice when your first single came out)

“Apparently being in a band is against the law at this point. Bands that are currently in the pop landscape — or have survived the pop landscape — who are they? Imagine Dragons, One Republic, Coldplay and Maroon 5. There’s your category for best group. The Grammys had to change the fucking category because there weren’t any bands. Now any [featured artist] can make it. Goddamn it, we cornered the market — then you fucked us, Grammys!”

Rock music is doing okay.

The 1975, lovelytheband, flora cash, Foster the People, Jack White/The Racanteours, The War on Drugs, The Killers are all making interesting tunes.

(I've seen lovelytheband, flora cash and jack white all in concert this year too)

I'd argue hard rock is a bit of a dead art form at this point but not one that's impossible to revive.

"HOW COME THE GRAMMYS WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE..."

Because the Grammy suck. They always have. Always will.

In 1989? They gave Jethro Tull the award for "Best Heavy Metal/Hard Rock" album...

Over...

Metallica's "...and Justice for All" (amazing)
AC/DC "Blow up your Video" (decent)
Iggy Pop "Cold Metal"
Jane's Addiction "Nothing's Shocking" (underrated classic)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm..._Rock/Metal_Performance_Vocal_or_Instrumental

As noted by Kurt Loder when reporting on this? "No Guns N' Roses (Appetite for Destruction) just Jethro Tull"

I see they gave Maroon 5 the award for "Best New Artist" over Kanye West in 05. Again. Proves my point.

 

[David.]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...responsible-innovation-music-industry-761049/

hey uh.

Maroon 5 is trash and this is is why I will be avoiding their halftime show.



Which "brand" of hip-hop are you referring too?

Because quite a few people in that movement are not fans of mumble rap.

I don't see people like Killer Mike, for example get radio play. (They're doing fine fwiw).

Also you are not invited to the party because you're a hack and a good portion of people were done with your brand of VH1/Soccer Mom Pop music in 2005. (me personally? I was done hearing your whiney voice when your first single came out)



Rock music is doing okay.

The 1975, lovelytheband, flora cash, Foster the People, Jack White/The Racanteours, The War on Drugs, The Killers are all making interesting tunes.

(I've seen lovelytheband, flora cash and jack white all in concert this year too)

I'd argue hard rock is a bit of a dead art form at this point but not one that's impossible to revive.

"HOW COME THE GRAMMYS WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE..."

Because the Grammy suck. They always have. Always will.

In 1989? They gave Jethro Tull the award for "Best Heavy Metal/Hard Rock" album...

Over...

Metallica's "...and Justice for All" (amazing)
AC/DC "Blow up your Video" (decent)
Iggy Pop "Cold Metal"
Jane's Addiction "Nothing's Shocking" (underrated classic)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm..._Rock/Metal_Performance_Vocal_or_Instrumental

As noted by Kurt Loder when reporting on this? "No Guns N' Roses (Appetite for Destruction) just Jethro Tull"

I see they gave Maroon 5 the award for "Best New Artist" over Kanye West in 05. Again. Proves my point.

Dude ya got get over the radio thing. He didn't say anything about the radio, which is an anachronism at Tbis point. He said the innovation is in hip hop and it is.

Maroon 5 isn't trash, you're just not who it's written for

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Rock music is doing okay.

The 1975, lovelytheband, flora cash, Foster the People, Jack White/The Racanteours, The War on Drugs, The Killers are all making interesting tunes.

(I've seen lovelytheband, flora cash and jack white all in concert this year too)

I'd argue hard rock is a bit of a dead art form at this point but not one that's impossible to revive.

The core problem with rock/hard rock now is the lack of musicians. Really good rock requires a certain level of musical expertise on the part of multiple individuals willing to play/work together. That's not saying that expertise alone is enough -- you can be proficient as hell but soulless. It also takes a spark of genius within one or more of them to write the music. The best bands had at least two guys like that, but you had to have at least one.

There was a pretty good documentary a few years ago called "It Might Get Loud", which basically was a meet-up/discussion between Jimmy Page, The Edge, and Jack White. They all had sufficient proficiency on the guitar that they spoke each others' musical language, even though their styles were very different. Point being that without that baseline expertise, you can't really do much in rock that hasn't already been done to death.

Anyway, the lack of musicians....Those guys (Page/White/Edge) all grew up in an era without the internet, or sampling (at least to any significant degree), and sitting in their rooms practicing their guitars for hours every day is how they got started. Same with drummers. There are just so few kids doing that now. There are an almost limitless number of internet/computer based hobbies other than the tedium of practicing an instrument.

And kids that are into music may take the shortcut to "producing" their own music just with a computer, or going into rap/hip-hop without needing instrumental proficiency all. Even if some of those kids do have instrumental skills, there has to be a critical mass to form a band/bands. Otherwise, you just get dudes with guitars singing in coffee shops, or making solo music that they self-publish on You Tube.

You just don't have the same social fabric/hobbies that existed 20-50 years ago, so you don't have as many good, innovative bands. Not really sure how that can get fixed.

 

[Triple-S]

Dude ya got get over the radio thing. He didn't say anything about the radio, which is an anachronism at Tbis point. He said the innovation is in hip hop and it is.

Maroon 5 isn't trash, you're just not who it's written for

I would argue it's far more in EDM but that's just me. (to the point where hip-hop has borrowed several elements of that)

I don't think they're a good group.

 

[David.]

I would argue it's far more in EDM but that's just me. (to the point where hip-hop has borrowed several elements of that)

I don't think they're a good group.

Of course you don't, they write pop songs for 16 year Olds.


Trap began in hip hop and that's where most energy is going towards. I'm listening right now to an edm song that's incorporating hip hop beats, and most do. Even shit ass dubstep drops bass, and lays shit synth over hip hop beats.

13 of the top 20 on Spotify right now are hip hop acts with the other 7 being pop. Zero edm. The first edm song is marshmaellow at 28.

Edm is played out and there really isn't anything innovative coming out of that genre. Ivr been heavily into it for the past 5 years and I jumped ship because it's just reshuffling of the same tired shit.

Diplo is the only one doing anything, and he's got just as much energy invested into pop and hip hop

 

[Huber.]

I'm at a paaaaaaaaaay phone

 

[Triple-S]

Well the Maroon 5 performance is pretty much being ripped to shreds.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/maroon-5-at-the-super-bowl-a-game-everyone-lost/
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-artless-spectacle-of-maroon-5-at-the-super-bowl
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...super-bowl-2019-halftime-show-reflects-ncna96

BTW? Credit to Travis Scott for putting on a decent segment of his show. While I'm not a fan of the music? (Feels dull) I respect the spectacle. Feels like in another life he'd be fronting a Motley Crue-like band on the Sunset Strip. (Someone needs to get him to listen to "Dr. Feelgood", "Fair Warning" and a few other metal albums stat...)

I really wish Big Boi/Outkast could have been the halftime show with a mix of HBCU bands providing the soundtrack. ("Drumline" ftw...)

 

[David.]

Unlike pluto is a decent rock band that throws back to the 90s. I can't go a week without Spotify recommending one of their songs.

 

[David.]

Well the Maroon 5 performance is pretty much being ripped to shreds.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/maroon-5-at-the-super-bowl-a-game-everyone-lost/
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-artless-spectacle-of-maroon-5-at-the-super-bowl
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...super-bowl-2019-halftime-show-reflects-ncna96

BTW? Credit to Travis Scott for putting on a decent segment of his show. While I'm not a fan of the music? (Feels dull) I respect the spectacle. Feels like in another life he'd be fronting a Motley Crue-like band on the Sunset Strip. (Someone needs to get him to listen to "Dr. Feelgood", "Fair Warning" and a few other metal albums stat...)

I really wish Big Boi/Outkast could have been the halftime show with a mix of HBCU bands providing the soundtrack. ("Drumline" ftw...)

Rap is new rock and its where all the energy is directed now. I guarantee everything you're missing from old school rock is still around just packaged differently.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1HN-AD3cCI&feature=youtu.be







This was by far the best pit I've ever been to

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnrapfZ-7Ec&feature=youtu.be

 

[David.]

This is good

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UjUBRbwI10&feature=youtu.be

 

[-Akronite-]

I've been thinking about this subject lately, as I've been digging into new music after a long while of stagnating a bit on my tastes.

I can enjoy a good song from most genres, but ultimately I'm a rock guy. I love classic rock and primarily listen to various forms of alternative rock. A lot of people bring up these big issues, such as the fact that the best selling tickets are the same bands that would've been 20 years ago. From the Stones and McCartney to RHCP and U2, we aren't seeing any new bands with the same massive appeal rock'n'roll used to generate. That does not mean there are not any great new rock bands, it simply means the culture shifted.

My solution is to stop caring about these metrics, because they are increasingly irrelevant. While cultural moments still exist through memes and internet explosions, every facet of life and culture has become increasingly niche. Sitcoms don't get ratings like they used to, but is television comedy struggling creatively? HELL NO. Same with rock, there is endless new and good music out there, it's just not the king of the zeitgeist any more.

Rock fans should concern themselves less with reviving the feeling/power of past rock and lean into the buffet of personalized musical options before them. If you love a song that only a couple hundred thousand people have heard, is that a problem? I will admit that part of what makes music great is how it connects people, and it's amazing to see a stadium full of people be in a moment together like that. But what's the difference if you love a record that went platinum versus a band your friend told you about?

The industry doesn't help matters, but rock bands should take that as a cue to say "FUCK THE MUSIC INDUSTRY" (or bomb them, if you like that band) and thrive in a more underground and punk scene. [This is not a comment on anyone here and I bet a lot of bands are way ahead of me on this thinking.]

Anyway, a lot of people say rock is dead because it doesn't make the money and affect the national culture the way hip-hop does now, but based on the way the world has evolved, rock will probably never truly die.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Rap is new rock and its where all the energy is directed now. I guarantee everything you're missing from old school rock is still around just packaged differently.

That maybe be true if what you're missing is the party/rowdiness/passion aspect of the rock. So if what you miss is the mosh pits from grunge, rap/hiphop may be a very attractive alternative. If it's actually the music itself that you like and miss...well, rap isn't the answer.

And I'm not saying that to trash rap. I'm just saying that the music itself is vastly different.

 

[David.]

That maybe be true if what you're missing is the party/rowdiness/passion aspect of the rock. So if what you miss is the mosh pits from grunge, rap/hiphop may be a very attractive alternative. If it's actually the music itself that you like and miss...well, rap isn't the answer.

And I'm not saying that to trash rap. I'm just saying that the music itself is vastly different.

Sure sounds always change. Even faster now than ever.