Open Discussion (Cavs + related issues)

[Jordan]

Cool article about the Cavs' defense in the Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-much-on-paper-but-clevelands-onto-something/

While the Cavaliers are indisputably an offensive juggernaut, Cleveland’s defense is rarely credited for the team’s success. Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and J.R. Smith can certainly put the ball in the hole, but outside of Love’s one huge stop at the end of Game 7 in last season’s NBA Finals, all three players are regarded more as turnstiles than brick walls on the defensive end.

And yet, the team’s 8-1 start is every bit as fueled by their defensive play, which is better than advertised — even if subtly so.

Why? The Cavs are keeping opponents away from corner threes and defending the restricted area well.

If you watch the Cavaliers play, it could be frustrating to see them allow so many three-point shots — their opponents take 28.7 shots per game from beyond the three-point line this season, the third-highest total in the NBA — but not all three-point shots are created equal. And that’s where the Cavs get you.

Last season, the Cavaliers allowed opponents to score 102.3 points per 100 possessions, the 10th-best mark in the NBA. This year, they are allowing 101.7, but the frequency of corner threes has dropped dramatically, accounting for 19 percent of three-point shots against compared to 25.4 percent a year ago.

low amount of contested shots this season, which accounts for just 56.7 per game, the third-fewest in the NBA. The team knows they are funneling shots to the inefficient parts of the court, therefore they aren’t as concerned about contesting them. In other words, part of the Cavaliers’ game plan is to allow their opponents to beat themselves.

It also explains how the team can hold opponents to 1.04 points per possession on unguarded catch-and-shoot plays, which make up almost two-thirds of all catch-and-shoot opportunities against. Only seven other teams are better defenders during these possessions.


As mentioned before, Irving’s defense has never been his calling card, but like the team, he is perhaps better than credited.

When Irving is the primary defender, teams are scoring 1.16 points per possession, bad enough to place him in the bottom 10 percent of the league. Typically, that comes in the form of the pick and roll, which scores 54.5 percent of the time against him this season.


Yet Irving still has a lot of value defensively. When the all-star guard is on the court, opposing teams are attempting 26.1 three-point shots per 48 minutes, which rises to 35.1 when he is on the bench.

Smith is in a similar situation. The three-point gunner is only average defensively this season (0.93 points allowed per possession) but reduces opponents’ three-point attempts by 4.4 per 48 minutes. That explains how he can rank in the top 30 percent of the league for points per possession allowed on unguarded catch-and-shoot attempts.

Also adding to the improved defensive efforts is Cleveland’s ability to defend around the basket. The percentage of shots allowed by the Cavaliers in the restricted area has remained steady from 2015-16 to now, but the team allows 1.09 points per possession on drives to the rim, the fifth-best mark in the NBA. Last year, they ranked No. 15 with 1.13 points allowed per possession.

LeBron James is the star here, holding opponents to 42.9 percent shooting around the basket so far this season. Stretch-four option Frye has been equally as good (42.9 percent shooting near the basket) and when he’s on the court, the team enjoys a 99.4 defensive rating this season, which increases to 102.7 when Frye is on the bench.

“Big guys like the paint,” Frye told ESPN’s Dave McMenamin. “I make them allergic to it. It’s just kind of how it is.”

The Cavaliers are off to as strong a start as we could have expected, and since defense wins championships, they are making a solid case to repeat in the NBA Finals. It’s just kind of how it is.

 

[Huber.]

Can we get an Allie Clifton appreciation thread? She's a gosh darn dime.

Nobody wants to be the one that creates that thread because it's surely going to get locked. Better leave that alone.

 

[kookoo]

Nobody wants to be the one that creates that thread because it's surely going to get locked. Better leave that alone.

Hah, why do you think I asked someone else to do it. Asking an American to do my dirty work. It's the Canadian way.

 

[David.]

Cavs rated third offensively and 9th defensively thus far

 

[Jon]

Cavs rated third offensively and 9th defensively thus far

By what? BBR has them at 2nd and 11th (by off/def rtg).

(we finished 3rd and 10th last season)

 

[David.]

By what? BBR has them at 2nd and 11th (by off/def rtg).

(we finished 3rd and 10th last season)

NBA.com..


They're all slightly different, and at various levels of update

 

[Jon]

NBA.com..


They're all slightly different, and at various levels of update

So, basically their version of Off/Def Rtg I take it?

If they've both taken in to account all the games, it must be something like how they account for offensive rebounding or something like that.

 

[Jordan]

By what? BBR has them at 2nd and 11th (by off/def rtg).

(we finished 3rd and 10th last season)

NBA.com..


They're all slightly different, and at various levels of update

BBR includes box score stats into their ratings. So with NBA.com, Offensive Rating is points per 100 possessions, Defensive Rating is points allowed per 100 possessions, and Net Rating is OR-DR. For BBR, they include things like rebounds, steals, etc. that may not be included in the general ratings.

I've read that as a measure of a team's offense and defense, BBR's does a better overall job. As an adjusted plus/minus, however, NBA.com's is perfect. Honestly I haven't done the math on BBR's myself to know for sure, though.

 

[Jon]

BBR includes box score stats into their ratings. So with NBA.com, Offensive Rating is points per 100 possessions, Defensive Rating is points allowed per 100 possessions, and Net Rating is OR-DR. For BBR, they include things like rebounds, steals, etc. that may not be included in the general ratings.

I've read that as a measure of a team's offense and defense, BBR's does a better overall job. As an adjusted plus/minus, however, NBA.com's is perfect. Honestly I haven't done the math on BBR's myself to know for sure, though.

Indeed, BBR uses a formula to calculate possessions (that involves some estimates) so that may introduce some error, but a fundamental issue when calculating the rating is whether an offensive rebound is counted as a possession or not. They may (or may not) differ on that.

 

[Jordan]

Indeed, BBR uses a formula to calculate possessions (that involves some estimates) so that may introduce some error, but a fundamental issue when calculating the rating is whether an offensive rebound is counted as a possession or not. They may (or may not) differ on that.

Indeed you are correct. BBR includes a formula for calculating the value of an offensive rebound into a possession. NBA.com, I know for a fact, does not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

 

[TyGuy]

If the Kings aren't going anywhere near the deadline I would approach them about Garrett Temple with our tpe and see if they might be interested in any of our other minimal assets that are expendable.

He's been awesome for the Kings. He can help fill a bit of the backup wing and point guard all in one.

 

[Chris Parker]

Not sure they're there yet, and with the success of the starting 7 you can understand. But while Birdman and Dunleavy may be able to give the team a solid 12 minutes in the playoffs, they aren't doing much to help the team right now. Liggins/Williams/McRae/Felder/Jones don't offer much of anything. At this point, I'd rather see what PJ Hairston has to offer than watch more Jordan McRae. He got his ring. Let him go.

What about J Smoove? Is it time to see (only 30!!) of Josh Smith can figure it out and adapt to a backup role? Is it possible to handcuff one arm to his leg on offense so he doesn't try to shoot? He seems worth more of a dice roll than this pantsload.

At this point, I think you bite the bullet and bring in Andre Miller as your backup point. Sure he's a sieve on defense, but they were going to bring back Mo Williams. Can Miller possibly be worse?

Hell, I'd rather bring in Nate Robinson than what they're got back there. I realize the team needs to develop some young talent. This ain't it.

Other names that would all be an improvement over this end of the bench abomination? Carl Landry. Gary Neal. Quincy Acy. Kevin Martin. I think Greivis Vazquez is available.

Listen outside of Landry, every one of these guys is a stiff or over the the hill. And they'd still be an improvement.

It's probably still early but I'd punt on Liggins/Williams/McRae, and ask myself some serious questions about what exactly Birdman provides, because I'm not convinced he's still able to move quick enough from the weak side. Dude's 38. Makes James Jones look young.

This team right now can handle one injury. If there are two injuries in their top 8 it could be a real issue, esp. if it's not an injured wing.

 

[David.]

Yea we need another play maker..


And a rim protector, unless our defense starts making sense

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yea we need another play maker..


And a rim protector, unless our defense starts making sense

Okay, got it.

 

[David.]

So both of our stars don't contribute to a positive Team ORTG? good news
I think the coach has something to do with it. I don't like the Love postups since I think there are better, more efficient team oriented ways to involve him in the offense.
Kyrie was much better under Blatt in his first year and that's a fact by all metrics but I expect his graph to change for the better as the season progresses.

Na this is on off.



It's basically showing, since we stagger our guys, that bron plus bench is better than kyrie and love plus bench.

Kevin can't create shots and kyrie could be a better play maker.