Pluto: Childress, WCO, and the draft

[Sly]

I think you guys that are hoping we're just going to reel in a couple big name FA's need to lower your expectations.

 

[The Oi]

I think this regime is in place for the long haul, personally. And that's pretty much regardless of their record next year, so long as they continue to pick up solid to great talent.

The Browns have some of the best front office personnel in the league right now and it's only a matter of time until they succeed. They've had two of the better drafts in the league with H&H and have come away with a bunch of guys who are at worst starters and at best future impact players. Haden is already a pro bowl quality CB and Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward (if he can improve his coverage) are all guys who could make a big jump next year.

The Browns had zero talent when Holmgren and Heckert took over and now have a bunch of good defensive players and one skill position player who appears to be on his way to being a good player (Little). The Browns have a LONG way to go on offense, and are desperately in need of a quality QB.

Because there have been no reports coming out of the Browns having interest in Griffin, I think they're probably interested in Griffin.

If they finish worse than 7-9 next year it's going to be because of injuries or because Colt is still starting at QB for some god-forsaken reason AND hasn't improved.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

You really think Colt is going to be with this team going forward if he doesn't get another opportunity to start?

Agreed. Once he loses the starting job to whichever QB we bring in, he is GONE. Send him to some dome team where he doesn't have to worry about the wind knocking down his passes. Anything we get for him in a possible trade is friggin gravy.

 

[Soda]

Do you really think this regime will survive a 4-12 or 5-11 season in 2012? I don't.

I'm telling you what I think will happen if the Browns don't start translating all this supposedly brilliant talent acquisition into tangible success on the field, and soon. It's an opinion based on what I know about the level of patience in ownership, in the media and in the fanbase. As has been already stated in this thread, there are already people in the media calling for this regime's head. What do you think it's going to be like this time next year if the team keeps losing?

Don't shoot the messenger.

EDIT- Check that- I think the regime would survive 4-12/5-11 if they had their QB of the future in place. That would buy them some time. If they trot out Colt McFrye again and go 4-12... I think they're dead.

I still don't buy it. Will Greg Brinda be flaming the front office from the Galleria? Absolutely.

I'm starting to feel a change in that department around the Browns. The current front office doesn't give a shit about whether or not the media likes them. The part of the fanbase that gets their stakes out are nothing but trash. Those people can't be satisfied, as some people in this world can't, and I'm hoping and betting that they'll be ignored this time around. Listening to the fans hasn't worked in 12 years. Now, Tony Grossi is gone and we're starting to get decent Browns coverage.

Plus, you bring up Phil Savage getting good reviews on his first couple drafts; however, you are ignoring Tom Heckert's track record as a General Manager of a NFL team. He had success in Philly and has had success in Cleveland. Phil Savage went from scout to GM to media member. Lets not try to paint Heckert on the same trajectory as Phil Savage.

Will they get heat if they don't turn in an improved season next year? Yes. The question is, how much really needs to happen to get more than 4 wins? What happens with a full off-season under the same coach?

Bottom line is that you're playing messenger for the shitty Cleveland fans. Anybody who pays attention to what is happening in Berea can see a pattern and thus far, that pattern has yielded talent and a better defense, which is the focus of the front office right now. All of this 4-12 talk, but no cognitive ability to look deeper into the team? 4-12 eclipses a top-10 defense completely? Even Mel Kiper has 3 of our rookies with a 1st round grade after their first season.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

I think you guys that are hoping we're just going to reel in a couple big name FA's need to lower your expectations.

Exactly. We might be able to get a guard or something, but its never a player to get excited about.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Bottom line is that you're playing messenger for the shitty Cleveland fans. Anybody who pays attention to what is happening in Berea can see a pattern and thus far, that pattern has yielded talent and a better defense, which is the focus of the front office right now. All of this 4-12 talk, but no cognitive ability to look deeper into the team? 4-12 eclipses a top-10 defense completely? Even Mel Kiper has 3 of our rookies with a 1st round grade after their first season.

Few things:

- At some point you have to translate improved performance off the field into improved performance on it. You can brag about your drafting all you want while you're losing 11 and 12 games a year, and that's fine; but at some point you have to start winning. Nobody expects the Super Bowl overnight, but we at least need to become competitive.

- I think it's a good thing that Holmgren is feeling a little heat. I think he came in here with an arrogant and unrealistic attitude- that the hayseeds around here would simply kiss his ring and let him take as much time as he wanted to take to get this thing turned around, because he's "The Big Show" and we should feel lucky he even deigned to be in our presence. There didn't seem to be much urgency in his approach. Hopefully he's had his eyes opened to the reality of the fact that he doesn't have as much time as he wants. There's a fire under his ass, and that's good for us as fans.

- Until we find a quarterback we're not going anywhere. That's the real test for this regime: can they find a QB? No other regime since 1999 has done so.

 

[Soda]

Few things:

- At some point you have to translate improved performance off the field into improved performance on it. You can brag about your drafting all you want while you're losing 11 and 12 games a year, and that's fine; but at some point you have to start winning. Nobody expects the Super Bowl overnight, but we at least need to become competitive.

- I think it's a good thing that Holmgren is feeling a little heat. I think he came in here with an arrogant and unrealistic attitude- that the hayseeds around here would simply kiss his ring and let him take as much time as he wanted to take to get this thing turned around, because he's "The Big Show" and we should feel lucky he even deigned to be in our presence. There didn't seem to be much urgency in his approach. Hopefully he's had his eyes opened to the reality of the fact that he doesn't have as much time as he wants. There's a fire under his ass, and that's good for us as fans.

- Until we find a quarterback we're not going anywhere. That's the real test for this regime: can they find a QB? No other regime since 1999 has done so.

Agreed just about everywhere. They do need to start winning, Holmgren does need a fire in his ass and we definitely need a legitimate QB. My spin would be that the fire under Holmgren's ass shouldn't be that close to actually "burning" him and that winning will come eventually. We must take notice that since they've started building the defense from the old Mangini guys, the defense has gotten into the top 10. You can call out the offense, but I see it as evidence of the need for a complete re-build. It just so happens that they started with defense and are now tasked with finding an offense.

 

[Triplethreat]

I just want to say, that if you have a dominant defense in this league, you'll be in the thick of it every single year.

You don't necessarily need a great QB to have success in the playoffs and further. If you look at the 49ers and the Ravens this year, I personally don't think of Joe Flacco or Alex Smith as anything better than average QB's, this also reverts back to the Jets the past few years with Mark Sanchez. I think the FO wants to put a great defense out there, and thus I think we will eventually end up going Defense in the draft. Even with a great defense though, the Ravens, Jets, and 49ers were all in position to grab a QB better than what they turned out to be in the draft. They just missed on their prospects. I think if the Browns go defense this year, we will probably have another top 10 pick next year, in a year with Matt Barkley, Tyler Bray, Aaron Murray, and Tyler Wilson I think there could be many opportunities to grab a guy that the FO can build this offense around.

 

[GreasySpread36]

You don't necessarily need a great QB to have success in the playoffs and further. If you look at the 49ers and the Ravens this year, I personally don't think of Joe Flacco or Alex Smith as anything better than average QB's, this also reverts back to the Jets the past few years with Mark Sanchez.

The problem is that, while a "game-manager" can get his team to the playoffs, he's usually in trouble once he goes up against a team that has roughly equal talent AND a stud at QB. In this day and age you need that stud, as well as a pass rush.

 

[Noonan]

The problem is that, while a "game-manager" can get his team to the playoffs, he's usually in trouble once he goes up against a team that has roughly equal talent AND a stud at QB. In this day and age you need that stud, as well as a pass rush.

Among the many problems the Browns have, this is the biggest that doesn't get enough attention. The Giants go about drafting like the SEC does recruiting: when in doubt, get a stud DL.

I can't even remember the last time the Browns had a good pass rusher. And you can never have too many good pass rushers. Mario Williams was mentioned and depending on the money it would take, the Browns should be interested.

Because the regime needs to start showing results next season I think the focus will be using one of the first three picks on at least one pass rusher -- even if we sign Williams. Quinton Coples, Melvin Ingram, Andre Branch and Whitney Mercilus all should be considered priorities for the Browns early on. As far as I'm concerned, using a first rounder on a WR does very little to help the Browns next season. The learning curve is just too high. The front office should be focused on upgrading QB, CB, and DE.

 

[AZ_]

Just get a fucking QB.

I'm so sick of the " oh let's find the next brad johnson" BS.

To win consistently in this league, you need a good quarterback.

 

[TheNewEra]

Among the many problems the Browns have, this is the biggest that doesn't get enough attention. The Giants go about drafting like the SEC does recruiting: when in doubt, get a stud DL.

I can't even remember the last time the Browns had a good pass rusher. And you can never have too many good pass rushers. Mario Williams was mentioned and depending on the money it would take, the Browns should be interested.

Because the regime needs to start showing results next season I think the focus will be using one of the first three picks on at least one pass rusher -- even if we sign Williams. Quinton Coples, Melvin Ingram, Andre Branch and Whitney Mercilus all should be considered priorities for the Browns early on. As far as I'm concerned, using a first rounder on a WR does very little to help the Browns next season. The learning curve is just too high. The front office should be focused on upgrading QB, CB, and DE.

Sheard??

 

[Triplethreat]

Just get a fucking QB.

I'm so sick of the " oh let's find the next brad johnson" BS.

To win consistently in this league, you need a good quarterback.

Define "good".

 

[The Oi]

Sheard??

Kam Wimbley had a great first year too. Gonna have to see how Jabaal does once defenses have had a year to prepare for him.

 

[AZ_]

Define "good".

Better than Alex Smith.

Better than Joe Flacco.

Someone who doesn't hamper the offense when they get to be competitive.