RCF Hoops Vets League 2013-14

[theSTEREO.]

Hey who is everybody in this league? I just sent someone a trade proposal and I have no idea who it is. :chuckles:

 

[supergoat52]

Holy crap is that one sided...

 

[Randolphkeys]

Holy crap is that one sided...

Voted against and fuck you Huber. I don't know why anyone let a troll into the league in the first place.

 

[Surge]

Why is that one sided? (really asking)

 

[Huber.]

How is that a one sided trade? Dion has been garbage this year and isn't even playing. I needed more blocks, better shoot%'s and less TO's.

 

[theSTEREO.]

I think maybe y'all should do some research before blowing up over it. I've been researching trades for weeks trying to find something equitable that helps both teams.

Duncan and George are rated very close to equal right now in almost every trade rater, and huber is struggling with both rebounds and blocks, which Duncan and Giannis both give.

Also, I was willing to take a risk on an injured Dion to get George, not to mention the hit that Dion gives to my fg%. And FWIW, Huber sent me that proposal three days ago and I debated for three days whether or not to pull the trigger. I can afford to sit on Dion for a week cause I have bit of a lead. But huber needs fantasy points now.

Seriously, if that gets voted against we all should have some discussions. There should be a difference between a trade you don't like and a trade that's not fair. You may not like it, but it's fair.

Come on now.



EDIT: Since I'm assuming everyone sees "Tim Duncan" and assumes old and worthless, since the start of February he is averaging 19ppg 11rpg 3ast 2blk 1stl on 52% shooting. George is averaging 21ppg 6.5rpg 3ast .3blk 2stl on 40% shooting. Don't see how that's unfair. I had rebounds and blocks to spare, and George gets me more 3's and FT's which I needed.

I really hate showing my hand here in how I evaluate, but I wasn't expecting to potentially lose this trade.

 

[The Oi]

He tried to force Duncan on me several times earlier this year. So glad I didn't take it.

 

[supergoat52]

I didn't vote against it Stereo, because I don't do that unless i think it's collusion, which this is not. Dion and Giannis are relatively inconsequential and can be excluded from any analysis because they are both relatively replaceable. Comparing George to Duncan though, in our league, isn't the same tier of player. For one, their Yahoo ranks are ~10 compared to ~35, and their ESPN ranks are about 8 compared to 51. In our buckets-heavy league you win on fgm, ftm, ft%, 3ptm, 3pt%, Ast, and steals, and several of those categories are HUGE wins (such as 3ptm and stls). Blocks are one category This is excluding the very real possibility of Duncan resting down the stretch, which isn't as likely with Paul fighting for a #1 seed.

Metrics might have them ranked similarly, but those are likely based on 8 or 9 category leagues, and they are purely statistical based. I doubt there is any human ranking that has them close. Paul is a top ten player, and Duncan is a top 40. Giannis is better than replacement level, but not by nearly enough to make up the difference.

Honestly, i commend you for a good trade, but it's nowhere close to even.

 

[Huber.]

I'm not making the playoffs with Dion sitting around and getting less minutes than Jack. I made this trade hoping Duncan and Giannis comibined would out produce PG and that Dion would be out for awhile. More of a swing for the fences desperation move. One error I did make was I didn't realize the playoffs are only 3 weeks away giving me about a 1% shot at making them so if you veto it do it because of that not because you think I am trolling.

 

[supergoat52]

I'm not making the playoffs with Dion sitting around and getting less minutes than Jack. I made this trade hoping Duncan and Giannis comibined would out produce PG and that Dion would be out for awhile. One error I did make was I didn't realize the playoffs are only 3 weeks away giving me about a 1% shot at making them so if you veto it do it because of that not because you think I am trolling.

Yeah there are literally 15 days until the playoffs begin, and this takes what, 5 days to process? So that means there are only 10 days of regular season for this trade to take have an impact on the regular season. That's why the rest of us are purely evaluating it from a "what will it do for Stereo in the playoffs" point of view, because that's really the only effect it will have.

 

[theSTEREO.]

I didn't vote against it Stereo, because I don't do that unless i think it's collusion, which this is not. Dion and Giannis are relatively inconsequential and can be excluded from any analysis because they are both relatively replaceable. Comparing George to Duncan though, in our league, isn't the same tier of player. For one, their Yahoo ranks are ~10 compared to ~35, and their ESPN ranks are about 8 compared to 51. In our buckets-heavy league you win on fgm, ftm, ft%, 3ptm, 3pt%, Ast, and steals, and several of those categories are HUGE wins (such as 3ptm and stls). Blocks are one category This is excluding the very real possibility of Duncan resting down the stretch, which isn't as likely with Paul fighting for a #1 seed.

Metrics might have them ranked similarly, but those are likely based on 8 or 9 category leagues, and they are purely statistical based. I doubt there is any human ranking that has them close. Paul is a top ten player, and Duncan is a top 40. Giannis is better than replacement level, but not by nearly enough to make up the difference.

Honestly, i commend you for a good trade, but it's nowhere close to even.

Appreciate your analysis.

Without giving away all my strategies, the evaluations I used were based on all 14 categories and the parameters of our league. Yes, Paul ranks higher, but the gap isn't what people assume. In fact I broke down the numbers above, Duncan is producing at level closer to on par with a player like George this past 6 weeks than he has all year.

Also, you can't look at a trade in a in a broad lens this late in the game. Gotta look at it under the circumstances. I needed to even out across categories, but to make any kind of shot at the playoffs last minute, Huber couldn't have Dion sitting on the bench (so Gannis is better than zero players, plus he stuffs categories needed across the board), plus between the time the trade goes official and the start of playoffs, Duncan plays more games than George. I'm gonna make the playoffs barring a major disaster, but someone outside looking in like Huber needs points on the board. Maybe it'll work for him maybe not, but you gotta swing for it at this stage.

Also, fwiw, my strength all year has been rebounds, off rebounds and blocks, and I'm probably gonna be sitting in third place after this week, so I wouldn't discount those categories as important in our league.

Not saying your opinion isn't valid, but apparently this one needed more explaining then others.

He tried to force Duncan on me several times earlier this year. So glad I didn't take it.

Now on to you...

This is a direct quote from a Jiggles PM earlier in the season. "The players on your team I'm most interested in (aside from Harden) are Iggy, Duncan, Plumlee and Lopez." Doesn't sound like forcing to me. :chuckles:

Then you tried to get Sanders, Giannis and Kendall Marshall at the prime of his run from me for Tony Snell and Jordan Crawford post-GS trade. THAT one would have been voted against. :chuckles:

 

[theSTEREO.]

Looks like what it comes down to is that if people think it's too little too late then next year we should move the trade deadline up two weeks.

Kind of a bummer to work hard at figuring out a trade and legitimately feel like you're helping another player, and then have people make you feel like you're cheating.

Moving the deadline earlier next year should help that. Just a thought.

 

[supergoat52]

Looks like what it comes down to is that if people think it's too little too late then next year we should move the trade deadline up two weeks.

Kind of a bummer to work hard at figuring out a trade and legitimately feel like you're helping another player, and then have people make you feel like you're cheating.

Moving the deadline earlier next year should help that. Just a thought.

No accusation of cheating! But I think Huber and perhaps yourself are a little disillusioned at the playoff chances for Huber at this point. I admire fighting till the end but consider the following: Assuming he is only 20 games behind the 8 seed after today, that would meant that he would need to average a 12-2 blowout each week against the 8 seed, while facing 2 top-10 teams nevertheless. If either myself or BigE only win 4 games these next 2 weeks, then we are most assuredly going to be caught by one of the 9/10 seed lurkers like Max, so Huber would also need them to fail heavily.

If Huber wins anything less than 24 games in the next 2 weeks he is out, and even if he does, he needs some really special things to happen.


Edit: And the fact that you just traded your strength of rebounds/blks for a boon in literally every other category is exactly why I am worried about facing you .

 

[The Oi]

Appreciate your analysis.

Without giving away all my strategies, the evaluations I used were based on all 14 categories and the parameters of our league. Yes, Paul ranks higher, but the gap isn't what people assume. In fact I broke down the numbers above, Duncan is producing at level closer to on par with a player like George this past 6 weeks than he has all year.

Also, you can't look at a trade in a in a broad lens this late in the game. Gotta look at it under the circumstances. I needed to even out across categories, but to make any kind of shot at the playoffs last minute, Huber couldn't have Dion sitting on the bench (so Gannis is better than zero players, plus he stuffs categories needed across the board), plus between the time the trade goes official and the start of playoffs, Duncan plays more games than George. I'm gonna make the playoffs barring a major disaster, but someone outside looking in like Huber needs points on the board. Maybe it'll work for him maybe not, but you gotta swing for it at this stage.

Also, fwiw, my strength all year has been rebounds, off rebounds and blocks, and I'm probably gonna be sitting in third place after this week, so I wouldn't discount those categories as important in our league.

Not saying your opinion isn't valid, but apparently this one needed more explaining then others.



Now on to you...

This is a direct quote from a Jiggles PM earlier in the season. "The players on your team I'm most interested in (aside from Harden) are Iggy, Duncan, Plumlee and Lopez." Doesn't sound like forcing to me. :chuckles:

Then you tried to get Sanders, Giannis and Kendall Marshall at the prime of his run from me for Tony Snell and Jordan Crawford post-GS trade. THAT one would have been voted against. :chuckles:

You took that Duncan quote out of context. I wasn't begging for Duncan. I was saying he was better than the garbo you were offering me at that time for what was probably good players from me.

 

[theSTEREO.]

No accusation of cheating! But I think Huber and perhaps yourself are a little disillusioned at the playoff chances for Huber at this point. I admire fighting till the end but consider the following: Assuming he is only 20 games behind the 8 seed after today, that would meant that he would need to average a 12-2 blowout each week against the 8 seed, while facing 2 top-10 teams nevertheless. If either myself or BigE only win 4 games these next 2 weeks, then we are most assuredly going to be caught by one of the 9/10 seed lurkers like Max, so Huber would also need them to fail heavily.

If Huber wins anything less than 24 games in the next 2 weeks he is out, and even if he does, he needs some really special things to happen.


Edit: And the fact that you just traded your strength of rebounds/blks for a boon in literally every other category is exactly why I am worried about facing you .

Fair enough.

Just don't wanna blame Huber for takin a swing, and if you have a surplus and don't sell high, why have a surplus at all.