Farewell, Richard Jefferson.

[AZCavs]

Did I miss where we acquired talent? From the hypothetical lineups people are posting, I dont see any new names other then Williams and Jefferson?

Who the fuck could the Cavs have signed this off-season that would be a big splash? Even if they added Joe Johnson and / or David West, they both would have been rotational role players. There is only one basketball to go around and touches are going to LeBron, Kyrie, Love and JR before they go to anyone else on the roster.

A few of you really need to get a fucking grip.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Slightly off topic, but following up on AZ:

San Antonio grabs a top shelf big man at significantly less than Portland can pay and grabs David West - worth 8 to 10 million a year if he agrees to resign with Indiana - for a stupid low bargain basement price.

I believe there's one reason for that: It's Timmy's last season, and as the gold standard for active big men in NBA history, other bigs want to support him and play with him. Going hand in hand with that fact, Pops said all along he will retire when Timmy retires.

Duncan is like Kobe in Kobe's wet dream fantasy retirement season, if Kobe was genuinely a nice guy.

Why are the Cavaliers fans measuring themselves against that kind of offseason? It's a cool guesture for Timmy, but we still have just as much, if not more talent.

 

[priceFTW]

Jefferson isn't the move everyone was hoping for (i.e., the young wing with some upside), but he's a decent addition to the team as the 9th or 10th man in the rotation IF he plays the way he did in Dallas and not Utah.

I think what Griffin is thinking here is that James playing the first 7 minutes of the first and then coming back to play 10+ minutes in the second quarter with the defensive lineups and then with Love and Kyrie back in and then repeating in the second half or playing all the of the third quarter to push for a blowout can get us big enough leads to rest him in the fourth. Jefferson, Mo, and if healthy (sigh), AV can play bench minutes that Miller, Jones, Harris, et. al. played and blew big leads prompting James to stay in longer games or to re-enter games that looked over. If so, James can play 32-34 minutes per game. We'll see.

Griffin is looking for a a player that can truly make an impact in the top 8 of the rotation and for that to happen, that player has to be a plus player and a player such as that is hard to find for a vet min unless David West falls into your lap. A TPE might help us find that player next year and I hope we keep looking because stacking the deck even more in our favor should be a priority no matter how good this team looks.

I think Griffin means it when he says a team that went 33-3 with an SRS (10 teams or so in NBA history can boast this--will post more about it some time later) of nearly 13 is a team you want to maintain. Statistically, that stretch of games was better than any of what James's Heat teams did and better than the Heat's 27 game win streak if you look at opponent strength, MOV, SRS, etc. We may think that a player may improve us, but a team that's 33-3 and invincible at home takes the exact right type of players to improve. It's far more likely the pieces we have with the addition of team chemistry will perform better than a group with a new addition to the top 8 who's barely a plus player.

I know I have posted the below chart before (the numbers changed slightly with the last update of RPM), but we have nearly 8 of 8 plus players at the top of the rotation, with Delly being a plus player the final 30 games of the season, and 5 of those guys are young enough to improve. NO team has had the top 8 in its rotation be plus players although some have had 9th or 10th men be plus players. Not the Spurs these two years nor the Warriors. The Warriors improved by adding nobody, but with Curry (was a plus defender for the first time in his career) and Draymond taking big leaps as well as Barnes rising defensively. IF Kyrie is even a neutral defender, there's a really good change that this team while healthy can win 67+ games. Remember, the GSW's starting lineup had a DRTG of 97 and Cleveland's Kyrie/JR/LBJ/Love/Moz starting lineup had a DRTG of 98 WITH Kyrie being a negative defender and JR being poor in many aspects of defense and Love truly improving defensively for the first or second time in his career. If Shump starts and Kyrie improves defensively and we communicate the way we did at the end of the season, that DRTG can be lowered further. How good this team will ultimately be will not be decided by a 10th or 11th man, but finding players who can play in certain matchups is definitely advantageous. How good this team can ultimately be will depend on how much of a leap TT, Love, and Kyrie make and whether or not James is more efficient next year as this was his 2nd or 3rd least efficient year based on ORTG and WS48 and if lady luck sees us healthy. Griffin knows this and will not change things unless a "sure fire" opportunity arises but there are VERY FEW sure things who will improve 33-3.

 

[Ruggeder]

Slightly off topic, but following up on AZ:

San Antonio grabs a top shelf big man at significantly less than Portland can pay and grabs David West - worth 8 to 10 million a year if he agrees to resign with Indiana - for a stupid low bargain basement price.

I believe there's one reason for that: It's Timmy's last season, and as the gold standard for active big men in NBA history, other bigs want to support him and play with him. Going hand in hand with that fact, Pops said all along he will retire when Timmy retires.

Duncan is like Kobe in Kobe's wet dream fantasy retirement season, if Kobe was genuinely a nice guy.

Why are the Cavaliers fans measuring themselves against that kind of offseason? It's a cool guesture for Timmy, but we still have just as much, if not more talent.

I don't disagree we have an insane amount of talent. I think we get to the finals. I hope we win just like I hoped last year. My point is having to hear the excuses every year why team x and y got so and so even though they shouldn't of because of reason x. I want the cavs to be team x and get a so and so on value. I'm not deriding the team I think we have great talent, but more is always better. to the other posters saying this offseason isn't done because we can look forward to a vastly overpaid Thompson signing, again one of our guys, I don't know what to say to that. Hopefully we can get someone with the TPE from a team blowing it up later. As always, go cavs.

 

[priceFTW]

AS for Jefferson and his "Marion" role.

Now, a player at his age can fall over the cliff at any point and I know everyone points to Marion, but Marion had already shown signs of not being who he once was while he was still in Dallas as evidenced by his impact numbers. Marion had already fallen over the cliff or was hanging precariously while holding on with one hand to the precipice. Jefferson trended up last year, so I have hope that he's not going to be a corpse next year, but will actually be able to defend decently and hit open threes. A guy like JJ was perhaps the worst perimeter defender (I would put up the stats, but they would just make you sad) in the league last year so the only way he was a net positive in most cases was if he drained at least a couple of threes to make up for the points he was going to give up. I'm assuming RJ would take some of those JJ minutes even though JJ was used as a stretch four in many instances last year and in doing so, could be a net positive.

Marion, after being a NET positive (i.e., his team was better with him on court than they were with him off court) for 12 of his first 13 years in the league, the Matrix was a NET negative the last four years he was in Dallas (2011: -9.6 ON-OFF; 2012: -5.9; 2013: -5.6; 2014: -9.9). In his last three seasons in Dallas, he was -2.0 on court, let alone ON-OFF. He was -8.0 per 100 possessions ON-OFF against the Spurs in that seven games series between DAL and SAS last year. Marion's ON-OFF of -1.9 here in Cleveland was actually the best he posted since 2010. In addition, his RAPM and RPM numbers had been falling steadily those years and he no longer was an overall plus defender although he was still a stellar defender of the three point shot as he was in Cleveland (top 15% in the league).

We should hope that this is not the year Jefferson falls off of a cliff. If he can play like last year, he can contribute to wins as a player who plays many of his minutes with the team in the lead.

Jefferson looked done in Utah but had a nice little comeback year in Dallas.

He was -.2 ON-OFF, but was in 2 of their top 9 lineups. and three of Dallas's top five defensive lineups.

DRPM: -16 (29th of 81 SFs); ORPM: -.45 (36 of 81 SFs)

OFFENSE:

He shot 43.2% on catch and shoot threes, 20th out of 258 players who shot at least 1.5 threes per game (he was 41.1% last year). That's better than what H. Barnes, Hayward, Middleton, Beal, Isiah Thomas, Harden, Dunleavy, KMart, Manu, Parsons, etc., shot. NOt too bad.

He shot 52.1% on WIDE open threes, although he only shot 29 of them and 40.5% on open threes. He shot 43.6% on wide open threes last year and 41.2% on open threes.

He produced 1.07 PPP in spot up situations, good for 47th out of 131 players with 150+ possessions.

He's still good in transition. He produced 1.30 PPP in transition, 21st out of 192 players who had 70+ such possessions.

DEFENSE:

Opponents shot 1.1% better against him than against everyone else and 1.5% better on threes. He was awful last season (+4.6% and +4.7% on threes). It seems that playing for a "contender" helped him try harder on defense.

He was decent in ISO defense, giving up .80 PPP, 44th out of 104 players who played at least 65 ISO possessions.

He was good in spot up defense, giving up .90 PPP, 41st out of 136 defenders who played 140+ such possessions (ahead of Carrol, Beal, Westbrook, Klay, Tucker, Ariza, Iggy, Hayward, Batum, Giannis to name some).

He was poor in handling pick and roll, giving up .95 PPP, bottom 13% in the league.

 

[David.]

Why are the Cavaliers fans measuring themselves against that kind of offseason? .

why would you not? how well you are doing is the last thing you need to be looking at in a vaccuum when it is in a competitve arena.





I like the signing. Was waiting on Price to come up with advanced stats. His defense is fine, he can shoot the ball really well. He IS marion 2.0, but that shouldnt be misunderstood..

marion couldhave provided a LOT more than he did. we didn't play hi. So RJ could be a solid contributor, he could never sniff the floor after the ASB.

These spots.. the 9th man down.. are hard to fill when considering how much we have to spend and who will be willing to take the smaller role. Unless RJ falls off a cliff or we just let him collect dust, this loks like a good get.




ps. @priceFTW : awesome work as usual. SRS is nothing to scoff at, especially the best ever (lol). HOWEVER, playoffs are matchup based, depth plays a different role, injuries do as well.. That data was collected while almost fully healthy, during a period of time where strengths and weaknesses and matchups were not as much a focal point. I dont believe its the end all statistic to look at.

 

[Randolphkeys]

why would you not? how well you are doing is the last thing you need to be looking at in a vaccuum when it is in a competitve arena.

Thanks for the empty words and sleeveless shirt, Hulk Hogan. Love your posts in EAYOR, Dave, but sheesh.

The Cavaliers may not have won the championship last year, but all the GMs know we are the team to beat. That allows for certain moves, but not a swan song type of offseason for two of the greats who ever played the game, especially in the locker room.

 

[David.]

Thanks for the empty words and sleeveless shirt, Hulk Hogan. Love your posts in EAYOR, Dave, but sheesh.

The Cavaliers may not have won the championship last year, but all the GMs know we are the team to beat. That allows for certain moves, but not a swan song type of offseason for two of the greats who ever played the game, especially in the locker room.

edit: not waiting for clarification or to split hairs. agree to disagree. I feel its imperative to look at your competition as a measuring stick when considering how well you are doing. Excuses/justification can be made, but it doesn't change how well you did.

 

[Randolphkeys]

edit: not waiting for clarification or to split hairs. agree to disagree. I feel its imperative to look at your competition as a measuring stick when considering how well you are doing. Excuses/justification can be made, but it doesn't change how well you did.

Best fucking self-edit in RCF history!

 

[Snarly]

Thanks for the empty words and sleeveless shirt, Hulk Hogan. Love your posts in EAYOR, Dave, but sheesh.

The Cavaliers may not have won the championship last year, but all the GMs know we are the team to beat. That allows for certain moves, but not a swan song type of offseason for two of the greats who ever played the game, especially in the locker room.

I have to agree and not many teams are going to give a super team players just because. Also we have a mark on our back and certain players want to hurt us than help us. I feel the only player who wanted to be here was West yet we had other plans. Honestly in my mind it was Prince, Butler, or bust. We ended up with a guy who could Battier like quality. If people would look at those heat teams we should know a deep roster is not a thing they went on.

Finally if I am real concerned fan I am more concerned about staying healthy. Mostly Love and Irving. We are deep where we need to be and between Jones and Jefferson we have a pair that can spell James more so in Jefferson. We have more that we need in scoring if we bring back J.R and defense in Delly. Jefferson is more skilled than Miller or Marion were and will be a better player than they were here. I am not saying this is who I wanted or would have gotten. Any stop gap to get James some rest is all we needed. Plus we know how James makes bald light skinned players into clutch guys.

 

[mds]

Bear Down.

 

[Snarly]

Bear Down.

Don't you mean Beer down because there are many more after reading this tread. It is like a book on how to gain perspective on life as a sports fan.

 

[mds]

Don't you mean Beer down because there are many more after reading this tread. It is like a book on how to gain perspective on life as a sports fan.

Haha. I don't often engage in the heated battles of RCF, so I was limiting my input to the utter joy it is to have an Arizona Wildcat on our team. Just wish we'd get one while they were under 30.

 

[Snarly]

Haha. I don't often engage in the heated battles of RCF, so I was limiting my input to the utter joy it is to have an Arizona Wildcat on our team. Just wish we'd get one while they were under 30.

Maybe we trade for Aron Gordon soon to replace A.V. By logic of some people here that should be no problem.

 

[mds]

Maybe we trade for Aron Gordon soon to replace A.V. By logic of some people here that should be no problem.

I was dying for Rondae. Hell, I'd take TJ McConnell!