The Voice
Best in the World
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
- Messages
- 14,790
- Reaction score
- 5,333
- Points
- 113
None of them, just like majority of them won't sack up they thought John Hughes was a bad pick when in reality he turned out quite decent.
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
Shurmur and Heckert fired (ESPN)
- Thread starter JMcCurry08
- Start date
None of them, just like majority of them won't sack up they thought John Hughes was a bad pick when in reality he turned out quite decent.
john telich @ JohnTelich8
Some players told Heckert, yes Heckert that this game is for him. Lotta respect 4 Heckert. I see him landing elsewhere nicely # Browns
My guess? Josh Gordon. Heckert really stuck his neck out on that one and gave him a big opportunity.
Some players told Heckert, yes Heckert that this game is for him. Lotta respect 4 Heckert. I see him landing elsewhere nicely # Browns
My guess? Josh Gordon. Heckert really stuck his neck out on that one and gave him a big opportunity.
Last edited:
Man Called X
Resident asshole
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 19,530
- Reaction score
- 29,852
- Points
- 135
Why would I trust Haslam? He doesn't know shit about football. He knows money. So who are we linked to, a coach and GM that don't know shit about football. GREAT CANDIDATES! I can't wait to see this gigantic failure blow up in their faces when the next team that hires Heckert wins a SB before the Browns ever make the playoffs again.
The Optomist said:
I wasn't a huge fan of the pick, but at least Heckert had a track record for drafting well, so I took the pick with a grain of salt.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2005
- Messages
- 20,417
- Reaction score
- 33,211
- Points
- 148
Shurmur, who gives a damn. Dead man walking.
Heckert...you know, he did a good job, but im not sure he is a top 10 GM in the NFL. Would be sad to lose him, but not heartbroken.
Hiring Lombardi would be the dumbest thing the Browns have done in quite some time.
Im a big fan of giving Josh McDaniels a 2nd shot with much less power. Guy is a very good coach, but got a little drunk on power. Need someone to keep him in check.
I cannot stress this enough: Fuck Michael Lombardi.
Heckert...you know, he did a good job, but im not sure he is a top 10 GM in the NFL. Would be sad to lose him, but not heartbroken.
Hiring Lombardi would be the dumbest thing the Browns have done in quite some time.
Im a big fan of giving Josh McDaniels a 2nd shot with much less power. Guy is a very good coach, but got a little drunk on power. Need someone to keep him in check.
I cannot stress this enough: Fuck Michael Lombardi.
sjhughes
Situational Stopper
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2009
- Messages
- 509
- Reaction score
- 244
- Points
- 43
There is a reason McDaniels was given another chance by the patriots to coach and it wasn't because he doesn't know shit about football. You are right he does know money and he also was smart enough to reach out to multiple owners and get an understanding of how to run a successful football team. He wasn't calling some shit team to get advice, like I said i dont know who I would want but I will risk trusting Haslam deciding on front office personnel over what lerner did.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 14,786
- Reaction score
- 41,039
- Points
- 148
For those wanting McDaniels, I'd suggest you give this a read:
As a Broncos fan I can speak from experience.
Now listen to me very carefully, because this is a HUGE misconception about what happened in Denver. Josh McDaniels (or Mac as I've come to call him) did not fail here because he was given too much power or because he made bad personnel decisions. Yes, he was given too much power and yes he made horrendous personnel decisions.
But I would argue that Mac was a worse head coach, worse presence in the team offices, in the lockerroom, on the practice field and on the sideline than he was as a de facto GM. Yes I know that is a saying a lot, but yes, he was that bad.
His first order of business was to divide the lockerroom. He got rid of players who were fan favorites and key pieces of the Shanahan regime. He didn't do this because they were bad football players but because he needed a cadre of lackeys and yes-men, and, according to players I've spoke with, spies in lockerroom. He wanted players who would be "his" guys. He got rid of Mike Leach, the best LS in the NFL, and signed Lonie Paxton to a $1m/yr contract. Why? Mike Leach was great but Mac needed some people from New England. As Browns fans, you know this having suffered through Eric Mangini and, to a lesser extent, Romeo Crennel.
Don't believe me? Take it from none other than future Hall of Famer Champ Bailey. Bailey told the Denver Post in February 2011 (after Elway was hired and made his first order of business resigning Champ):
Telling that Mac wasn't going to re-sign one of the greatest Broncos of all time and Bailey wasn't going to re-sign as long as Mac was here says all that needs to be said about the culture Mac created at Dove Valley.
On top of dividing the lockerroom, Mac divided the coaching staff between "his" guys and guys from the Shanahan regime. Why do you think Mike Nolan left after 1 year? (Yes Nolan wasn't a Shanahan guy, Mac hired him but he bolted a year after working for Mac). Mac told him to stop blitzing after week 6. Yes, we were 6-0 and Mac decided to start tinkering (or totally changing because Nolan's defense was different than the Belichick/New England D) with an area of the team that was FAR from his field of expertise. How did that work? We went 2-8 in the next 10 games. He then hired another yes-man, Don Martindale, to run the defense. Wink had no experience whatsoever coordinating a defense. Rick Dennison (OC) and Bobby Turner (RBs coach) left after Mac's first year. Dennison is a Colorado native, he went to CSU, his family lived in Denver, he played for the Broncos and coached for us since his retirement. He uprooted all of that and left the second he could to get away from Mac.
The front office was the same way. Mac fired Jim and Jeff Goodman, Shanahan's respected player personnel men. He replaced them with yes-man Brian Xanders (who Elway fired last May) and Matt Russell and Keith Kidd, from the Patriots personnel department.
Mac couldn't design game-plans and wouldn't make adjustments. He flat-out told the Denver Post that he didn't believe in making adjustments because he believed in his game plan entering the game. When we were down 59-14 to the Raiders, he felt it wasn't necessary to make changes to the pre-determined game plan.
People in the team headquarters (known as "Dove Valley" among Broncos fans) were paranoid. The environment Mac created and fostered was described as being similar to the Nixon White House - constant paranoia, back-stabbing, spying, etc. Mac even went so far as to take down pictures of players of Broncos past.
Mac divided the media. Those who wanted access to the team couldn't write negative articles or say bad things about him or his players on the radio/TV if they wanted to maintain their access. Respected sportswriters like Mike Klis and Mark Kizla and radio personalities like Mike Evans became loathed by the fan base for their McDaniels cheerleading and became known as "McDaniels apologists." Their reputations have still not fully recovered.
Partly because of the culture he created but moreso because of his inabilities to do anything other than what was done in New England made him an awful coach. If it wasn't done in New England, it wouldn't be done in Denver. Mac took a franchise with a proud history and a unique identity and tried to transform it into the Patriots-West. Fans were irate. The Broncos are the Broncos, they're not an expansion team or the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Mac was unable, or unwilling, or most likely, unable and unwilling, to make the best use of his available talent. Every player was put into a New England role. Eddie Royal was to be Wes Welker. Chris Kuper was to be Logan Mankins. Jay Cutler wasn't Tom Brady so he was traded for Kyle Orton. The Patriots drafted Rob Gronkowski so Mac traded for Dan Gronkowski. Mac traded a first-round pick for Alphonso Smith. Smith was small, slow, a moron and a jerk and all that was known going into the draft.
Mac only was experienced on one team with one head coach - New England. So he didn't know how to do anything a different way. He hadn't learned from multiple coaches and developed his own way. He's not now. After being fired here and in St Louis he had "run home to daddy" as I like to say because it was the only place he was successful. Unless he's bringing Tom Brady with him to Cleveland, he will fail again just like Mangini, Weis, Crennel, Mangini again, Crennel again, Pioli and himself.
All in all it was the worst thing I've ever gone through as a fan. Those 20 months that Mac was here were the lowest 20 months in Broncos history. The McSpyGate scandal - brought about because Mac fired Denver's video crew and replaced them with Scarneccia and his people (who was responsible for SpyGate in New England) - was the tipping point. At his last home game as head coach, Invesco field stadium security worried about Mac's safety so, rather than have him walk into the stadium and out of it using the players tunnel, he was surrounded by security staff and shuttled down the stairs directly behind the bench, a route usually reserved for players seriously injured or sick. That's how angry fans were, Mac was so loathed he was in personal danger. Now, that's terrible and inexcusable by Broncos fans, but it speaks to the type of environment that surrounded the team during his tenure.
Browns fans are among the most loyal and passionate in the NFL. They've suffered long enough. You deserve SO much better than Lombardi and McDaniels. For your sakes, I hope these rumors are untrue.
As a Broncos fan I can speak from experience.
Now listen to me very carefully, because this is a HUGE misconception about what happened in Denver. Josh McDaniels (or Mac as I've come to call him) did not fail here because he was given too much power or because he made bad personnel decisions. Yes, he was given too much power and yes he made horrendous personnel decisions.
But I would argue that Mac was a worse head coach, worse presence in the team offices, in the lockerroom, on the practice field and on the sideline than he was as a de facto GM. Yes I know that is a saying a lot, but yes, he was that bad.
His first order of business was to divide the lockerroom. He got rid of players who were fan favorites and key pieces of the Shanahan regime. He didn't do this because they were bad football players but because he needed a cadre of lackeys and yes-men, and, according to players I've spoke with, spies in lockerroom. He wanted players who would be "his" guys. He got rid of Mike Leach, the best LS in the NFL, and signed Lonie Paxton to a $1m/yr contract. Why? Mike Leach was great but Mac needed some people from New England. As Browns fans, you know this having suffered through Eric Mangini and, to a lesser extent, Romeo Crennel.
Don't believe me? Take it from none other than future Hall of Famer Champ Bailey. Bailey told the Denver Post in February 2011 (after Elway was hired and made his first order of business resigning Champ):
Champ Bailey said:
Telling that Mac wasn't going to re-sign one of the greatest Broncos of all time and Bailey wasn't going to re-sign as long as Mac was here says all that needs to be said about the culture Mac created at Dove Valley.
On top of dividing the lockerroom, Mac divided the coaching staff between "his" guys and guys from the Shanahan regime. Why do you think Mike Nolan left after 1 year? (Yes Nolan wasn't a Shanahan guy, Mac hired him but he bolted a year after working for Mac). Mac told him to stop blitzing after week 6. Yes, we were 6-0 and Mac decided to start tinkering (or totally changing because Nolan's defense was different than the Belichick/New England D) with an area of the team that was FAR from his field of expertise. How did that work? We went 2-8 in the next 10 games. He then hired another yes-man, Don Martindale, to run the defense. Wink had no experience whatsoever coordinating a defense. Rick Dennison (OC) and Bobby Turner (RBs coach) left after Mac's first year. Dennison is a Colorado native, he went to CSU, his family lived in Denver, he played for the Broncos and coached for us since his retirement. He uprooted all of that and left the second he could to get away from Mac.
The front office was the same way. Mac fired Jim and Jeff Goodman, Shanahan's respected player personnel men. He replaced them with yes-man Brian Xanders (who Elway fired last May) and Matt Russell and Keith Kidd, from the Patriots personnel department.
Mac couldn't design game-plans and wouldn't make adjustments. He flat-out told the Denver Post that he didn't believe in making adjustments because he believed in his game plan entering the game. When we were down 59-14 to the Raiders, he felt it wasn't necessary to make changes to the pre-determined game plan.
People in the team headquarters (known as "Dove Valley" among Broncos fans) were paranoid. The environment Mac created and fostered was described as being similar to the Nixon White House - constant paranoia, back-stabbing, spying, etc. Mac even went so far as to take down pictures of players of Broncos past.
Mac divided the media. Those who wanted access to the team couldn't write negative articles or say bad things about him or his players on the radio/TV if they wanted to maintain their access. Respected sportswriters like Mike Klis and Mark Kizla and radio personalities like Mike Evans became loathed by the fan base for their McDaniels cheerleading and became known as "McDaniels apologists." Their reputations have still not fully recovered.
Partly because of the culture he created but moreso because of his inabilities to do anything other than what was done in New England made him an awful coach. If it wasn't done in New England, it wouldn't be done in Denver. Mac took a franchise with a proud history and a unique identity and tried to transform it into the Patriots-West. Fans were irate. The Broncos are the Broncos, they're not an expansion team or the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Mac was unable, or unwilling, or most likely, unable and unwilling, to make the best use of his available talent. Every player was put into a New England role. Eddie Royal was to be Wes Welker. Chris Kuper was to be Logan Mankins. Jay Cutler wasn't Tom Brady so he was traded for Kyle Orton. The Patriots drafted Rob Gronkowski so Mac traded for Dan Gronkowski. Mac traded a first-round pick for Alphonso Smith. Smith was small, slow, a moron and a jerk and all that was known going into the draft.
Mac only was experienced on one team with one head coach - New England. So he didn't know how to do anything a different way. He hadn't learned from multiple coaches and developed his own way. He's not now. After being fired here and in St Louis he had "run home to daddy" as I like to say because it was the only place he was successful. Unless he's bringing Tom Brady with him to Cleveland, he will fail again just like Mangini, Weis, Crennel, Mangini again, Crennel again, Pioli and himself.
All in all it was the worst thing I've ever gone through as a fan. Those 20 months that Mac was here were the lowest 20 months in Broncos history. The McSpyGate scandal - brought about because Mac fired Denver's video crew and replaced them with Scarneccia and his people (who was responsible for SpyGate in New England) - was the tipping point. At his last home game as head coach, Invesco field stadium security worried about Mac's safety so, rather than have him walk into the stadium and out of it using the players tunnel, he was surrounded by security staff and shuttled down the stairs directly behind the bench, a route usually reserved for players seriously injured or sick. That's how angry fans were, Mac was so loathed he was in personal danger. Now, that's terrible and inexcusable by Broncos fans, but it speaks to the type of environment that surrounded the team during his tenure.
Browns fans are among the most loyal and passionate in the NFL. They've suffered long enough. You deserve SO much better than Lombardi and McDaniels. For your sakes, I hope these rumors are untrue.
RealKingofCleve
Banned
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2010
- Messages
- 2,954
- Reaction score
- 1,236
- Points
- 113
Heckert is a solid but not spectacular GM. Not heartbroken he is leaving, though I do feel bad that Hologram screwed him over with the Shurmur hire and Weeden pick. It is possible for the Browns to do better (or do worse). Lets at least see some results before we shit on the new decision making.
CavsRules
Cleveland For Life
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 7,996
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
I've trusted Heckert with all of his draft picks, so I didn't have a problem with Hughes.
His track record is nothing but successful moves.. Yet, they're going to replace him.
Ruken
Sixth Man
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2009
- Messages
- 2,811
- Reaction score
- 1,212
- Points
- 113
Right because owners never make dumb choices...oh wait
His track record is three straight sub .500 seasons. Wins quantify the job he's done, not the talent.
Man Called X
Resident asshole
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 19,530
- Reaction score
- 29,852
- Points
- 135
Heckert's job is to get the talent. Not to coach the talent.
His job is to pick players that have talent, fit the system, and that will be contributors. But if his team sucks, regardless of the coach, he gets the axe. Wins quantify your job regardless of where your at in the totem pole.