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The Brian Hoyer thread...

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You missed the part where Hoyer's success is the direct result of the offensive line and Kyle Shanny.....:bs:

Your condescension aside, Shannahan has now proved, in multiple locations, to be one of the best offensive minds in the game. We have two Pro Bowlers on our offensive line and a 2nd round rookie who has looked like a future Pro Bowler. Even Greco and Schwartz have played well. The protection Hoyer has had has been amazing, as well as the holes our backs have had to run through. That's not me taking anything away from Hoyer's performance, despite how you want to spin it.

1. Cleveland Browns (12th)PB: 1st, RB: 3rd, PEN: 4th
Stud: How about going for a rookie? Joel Bitonio has been everything advertised and a little bit more. It’s not just that he doesn’t look lost on the field, he’s added some punch to the team’s running game. A great start to life in the NFL.
Dud: All of the starters are grading in the green. There is no dud. Not yet.
Summary: It’s rare the stars align like this. You’ve got five players who have played every snap and look like a line in sync. They’re opening up holes for their backs and giving their quarterback time to make plays. A real testament that the guys you associate with making up the numbers are playing just as well as the guys on the big money.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/4/

If y'all wanna discount the impact scheme and O-Line have on QB play, feel free.
 
Your condescension aside, Shannahan has now proved, in multiple locations, to be one of the best offensive minds in the game. We have two Pro Bowlers on our offensive line and a 2nd round rookie who has looked like a future Pro Bowler. Even Greco and Schwartz have played well. The protection Hoyer has had has been amazing, as well as the holes our backs have had to run through. That's not me taking anything away from Hoyer's performance, despite how you want to spin it.

I wouldn't try to take credit away from the offensive line. I am, however, IDing the inflation of the o-line's impact on Hoyer. The fact of the matter is it's both. The offensive line is playing very well. It does have to do with the change in system to Shanny's, no doubt, and it also has to do with a better guard situation.

If you watch the stuff that's out there this season of Hoyer, it isn't always the offensive line creating a huge pocket. Hoyer has a pretty solid awareness inside the pocket and has made plenty of great throws right before being hit hard, some on bootleg plays and even a few on the old-fashioned stepping up in the pocket. Again, I'm not taking away the fact that the o-line has to do what they're expected to do in order for Hoyer to follow his "routine" after a snap.

It's awesome that they're both performing well to this point. I'd rather not split hairs as to why when the reality seems like it's a bit of everything.
 
It's awesome that they're both performing well to this point. I'd rather not split hairs as to why when the reality seems like it's a bit of everything.

Which nobody is denying, but you're doing a hell of a job arguing this point though.
 
I wouldn't try to take credit away from the offensive line. I am, however, IDing the inflation of the o-line's impact on Hoyer. The fact of the matter is it's both. The offensive line is playing very well. It does have to do with the change in system to Shanny's, no doubt, and it also has to do with a better guard situation.

If you watch the stuff that's out there this season of Hoyer, it isn't always the offensive line creating a huge pocket. Hoyer has a pretty solid awareness inside the pocket and has made plenty of great throws right before being hit hard, some on bootleg plays and even a few on the old-fashioned stepping up in the pocket. Again, I'm not taking away the fact that the o-line has to do what they're expected to do in order for Hoyer to follow his "routine" after a snap.

It's awesome that they're both performing well to this point. I'd rather not split hairs as to why when the reality seems like it's a bit of everything.

The Browns have allowed 15 quarterback pressures in five games, the best in the league. By comparison, the San Diego Chargers have given up a league leading 69. The median number is 46.
Brian Hoyer has only been “hit” (not touched, but hit hard), two times. The only quarterback who’s stayed upright more is Ben Roethlisberger.
Hoyer has only been sacked five times and routinely has a clean pocket to throw from. The only fulltime starting quarterbacks with less are Drew Brees and Peyton Manning.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-the-NFL/37a8f0cc-50d6-4b33-9538-f5587d3ca64e

Hoyer has decent to good pocket awareness, and he doesn't hold onto the ball for days like Weeden did, but the numbers (from the Browns website) show how clean he's been. Your memory of him making "plenty of throws" just before being hit hard doesn't match reality. He's had the cleanest pocket in the NFL to work with so far this season - and he's taken advantage of it.
 
You should have watched what that good for nothing fucktard Peyton Manning did in the Super Bowl.

Fact of the matter is, no quarterback is going to be errorless on every drive, every week. Hoyer could have done better closing in Baltimore. So could a lot of players that week.

But this past week, the tide appeared to shift in a positive direction. According to Pettine: "His poise, demeanor, the way he handles himself, makes it easy for the team to rally around him." It sounds like people are putting Baltimore aside and focusing on getting this thing moving in the right direction, because that is the correct non-loser mindset to have inside a locker room.

Peyton manning has started many of games, the sample size isn't even comparable and it wasn't just Peyton manning that sucked in that Super Bowl for Denver. Let's be honest, they would have never made the Superbowl without manning at qb.

Manning most likely finds a way to win. Hoyer just took a giant dump on the field the final 3 series. Partially Gabriel's fault for falling down, but you have to find a way to win at qb.


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Peyton manning has started many of games, the sample size isn't even comparable and it wasn't just Peyton manning that sucked in that Super Bowl for Denver. Let's be honest, they would have never made the Superbowl without manning at qb.

Manning most likely finds a way to win. Hoyer just took a giant dump on the field the final 3 series. Partially Gabriel's fault for falling down, but you have to find a way to win at qb.


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Hoyer, like Manning in the Super Bowl, had some less than superb series in a clutch situation. I can say the same for Aaron Rogers in weeks 1 and 3, Andrew Luck in the fourth quarter against Philly in week 2, or Russell Wilson in week 2 against San Diego. The point is, focusing on three unsuccessful series in which Hoyer wasn't the only player contributing to stalled drives can be applied to literally every QB. Repeating it like a broken record for two weeks doesn't make it any more valid or any less valid. It just shows you have run out of points to debate.
 
Hoyer, like Manning in the Super Bowl, had some less than superb series in a clutch situation. I can say the same for Aaron Rogers in weeks 1 and 3, Andrew Luck in the fourth quarter against Philly in week 2, or Russell Wilson in week 2 against San Diego. The point is, focusing on three unsuccessful series in which Hoyer wasn't the only player contributing to stalled drives can be applied to literally every QB. Repeating it like a broken record for two weeks doesn't make it any more valid or any less valid. It just shows you have run out of points to debate.

If you go by the comments of fans you'd think that the quarterback position is suppose to be played by some larger than life entity that only exists through the heavenly kingdom of "what have you done for me lately... failed or succeeded a few times... and then had success multiple times... and then failed a few more times after that" but ultimately they remain immortal.


Look, there is no superhero formula to the quarterback position. These guys live and die with their knowledge, talent, tools they have around them, and the system in which they execute.

Each one has their strengths and weaknesses. Hoyer has shown in multiple games his ability to regroup and remain decisive in the worst of circumstances.

That goes a long way in this league and I've seen better quarterbacks perform worse under those circumstances in just the little sample size that we have and maybe not the talent some of these other guys have at their disposal.
 
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I usually don't do this, but I had to stop reading after that. Seriously though, I am not quite yet to put Hoyer as a top-15 QB at this moment. But, to say that 15-20 QB's in the NFL would seriously have us this competitive, right now, is absolutely ridiculous.

Here are Hoyer's numbers right now: passer rating 97, TDs 6, INTs 1, passing percentage 62%.

To think 20 QBs in the NFL, can come here, and do that, is nuts. Because there aren't 15-20 QB's playing like Hoyer right now.

After Philip Rivers (who has clearly been the best QB this season thus far), Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers, you could make a good argument no other QB in the NFL is playing better than Hoyer.

Now, don't get me confused in thinking that means he's elite. No, 4 games doesn't prove a lot in the NFL, he needs a much bigger window of it. And honestly, I don't literally expect him to go at this pace either.

I don't know how anyone can't give Hoyer a lot of credit the way he's playing, because he's the reason we're not 0-4, like we should be, with how horrible this defense has been.

He's doing what Tom Brady used to do. Taking average, to inexperience skill players, a bad defense, and still winning games. And he certainly doesn't have Belichick on he sidelines either.

Right now, Hoyer is definitely playing like a top-5 QB.

I'd love to hear that argument, because aside from the three you mentioned (Rivers, Manning, Rodgers) Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson have clearly outperformed Hoyer this year- he's not "definitely not playing like a top-5 QB." I don't even think a strong case can be made he's among the top-10, but I've got a different opinion of the performance of QBs like Tony Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan.

Before anyone wants to point out his QB rating (9th best in the whole league) there's other more relevant numbers: His completion percentage (62.1%, 21st in league) and yards per attempt (7.64, 13th in league) are nowhere near the league's elite, while the Browns numbers on 3rd down are atrocious on the year- 18 for 50 (36%) puts us at 26th overall, just above teams like Tennessee (32.8%), Oakland (33.3%), and Jacksonville (33.3%).

We haven't faced enough good defenses to have that number so low, my best guess as to why we're struggling to convert third downs is Hoyer seems to lock on to Hawkins. He's easily been our best receiver on the year and the best at creating space to get open, but defenses are keying in on him and starting to respect the chemistry the two have in the short passing game.

I'll readily say Hoyer's played better than I ever expected; being among the top 15-20 QBs so far in his first year in this offense while coming off an ACL tear is very impressive. I didn't ask for him to be benched last week during halftime like many others, the pass defense was the obvious concern that needed adjustments, not the QB play. Hoyer looked unfazed when we got the ball with a little over 2 minutes to go in the half down 28-3, hitting Benjamin for a 21-yard-gain on the first play of the possession then proceeding to drive 90 yards and get a much need TD.

But there's a difference in showing great poise and showing great talent. Hoyer's mobility is limited this year, he still misses too many easy throws, and his deep balls still float in the air like wounded ducks. I'm still amazed we had some posters putting him in the top-10 after three games, but now he's top-5? He's been good, but he shouldn't be put in a class with legitimate top-5 QBs like Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers.
 
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news...-the-NFL/37a8f0cc-50d6-4b33-9538-f5587d3ca64e

Hoyer has decent to good pocket awareness, and he doesn't hold onto the ball for days like Weeden did, but the numbers (from the Browns website) show how clean he's been. Your memory of him making "plenty of throws" just before being hit hard doesn't match reality. He's had the cleanest pocket in the NFL to work with so far this season - and he's taken advantage of it.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/medi...ennessee/f168026c-fd00-4b8e-8785-1edbd3d0b717

Watch this and tell me that Hoyer's been perfectly protected. That toss to Benjamin on the sideline is clean, eh? Just a basic throw?

It's misrepresentations of Hoyer that make me step-up to the plate. And also a reason I'm condescending.
 
In the 2nd half of games this season:

Rivers: 46-71 (64.8%); 542 yds; 5 TD; 0 INT; 111.4 Rating; 7.6 Y/A
Rodgers: 39-55 (70.9%); 515 yds; 5 TD; 1 INT; 122.9 Rating; 9.4 Y/A
Wilson: 34-54 (63.0%); 307 yds; 3 TD; 1 INT; 89.0 Rating; 5.7 Y/A
Peyton: 46-75 (61.3%); 534 yds; 3 TD; 1 INT; 90.6 Rating; 7.1 Y/A
Luck: 71-104 (68.3%); 870 yds; 8 TD; 3 INT; 107.5 Rating; 8.4 Y/A
Hoyer: 52-79 (65.8%); 680 yds; 4 TD; 1 INT; 104.4 Rating; 8.6 Y/A

To me, it certainly seems like, overall, he's stepping up when it matters most. His #'s in the 2nd half of games are comparable to the biggest names. And he's throwing more often than most of them.
 
Hoyer is probably never going to be a top 10 QB in the league, so comparing him to those guys is a waste of time. Luckily, you don't need an all time great QB to win a Super Bowl. You have to have a competent QB, coaching, and a defense. Right now, Hoyer is the only one of those 3 ingredients that we have.

Hoyer has only played like 7 games in his career. If he improves at all he will definitely be good enough to win with. If Johnny ever shows he can be competent, then we can worry about who is better. Right now I am infinitely more concerned with the defensive side of the ball than our QB play.
 
Hoyer is probably never going to be a top 10 QB in the league, so comparing him to those guys is a waste of time. Luckily, you don't need an all time great QB to win a Super Bowl. You have to have a competent QB, coaching, and a defense. Right now, Hoyer is the only one of those 3 ingredients that we have.

Completely agree, just proving that overall this season, Hoyer has not shit the bed & has comparable #'s to the best in the game.
 

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