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The Cavs and the salary cap

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Can't sign and trade, they're over the apron.

I think he's saying the opposite. S&T TT for an under contract(if he opts in) Roy Hibbert.

We can S&T guys(TT, JR, Delly, Shump) out for guys under existing contracts.

Just can't S&T guys(free agents this summer) in, being over the apron.
 
I think he's saying the opposite. S&T TT for an under contract(if he opts in) Roy Hibbert.

We can S&T guys(TT, JR, Delly, Shump) out for guys under existing contracts.

Just can't S&T guys(free agents this summer) in, being over the apron.

Other restrictions on RFAs (As Griffin already stated they will extend TT a QO):
If the Cavs match an offer sheet, they can't trade the player for a year without his consent.

You also can't S&T a player who has accepted an offer sheet from another team.


Essentially Tristan would have to forego his free agency to allow the Cavs to sign and trade him.
 
Other restrictions:
If the Cavs match an offer sheet, they can't trade the player for a year without his consent.

You also can't S&T a player who has accepted an offer sheet from another team.


Essentially Tristan would have to forego his free agency to allow the Cavs to sign and trade him.

Pretty sure there is some wiggle room around this. I remember when Batum signed his offer sheet with Minny, there was brief talk go Portland and Minny working out a deal. But I'm not 100% certain on that, so I won't claim to know for sure
 
As the cap jumps to 87 and then over 100 million by 2017-2018, their new deals will be very tradeable if need be.

That jump is never going to happen.

The owners will lock the players out after 16/17 and have some kind of different deal in place. After that jump to 108 the cap falls for multiple years in a row, which will create havoc for teams finances.

A max contract at 30% of the cap with 7.5% yearly raises when the cap suddenly starts dropping and then levels out for a few years will be a real problem for teams, and it is just one of a multitude of reasons we are probably going to have a prolonged lockout.

The owners wanted to smooth the cap to avoid these wild run ups and then come downs, and the players weren't interested. The next lockout will be nasty.
 
Pretty sure there is some wiggle room around this. I remember when Batum signed his offer sheet with Minny, there was brief talk go Portland and Minny working out a deal. But I'm not 100% certain on that, so I won't claim to know for sure

91. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

  • The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 44).

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91
 
It's what I've been saying for months now.

Thompson is going to get $15M+ from this team. He's not worth that kind of bread, at least, not at this point.

He's shown flashes of a low-post offensive game though, and that has me intrigued.

I'd only be okay with it if it's a long-term deal with a team-option in the last year.

Mozgov, a 7'1 center with a developing mid-range game is probably worth $14-15M, if you can lock that in under this present CBA.

But having Love maxed at 30% of the cap ($30M in 2 years) plus both of these guys bringing in $30M+ is a tough pill....

That's why I'm saying we should strongly consider trading Thompson.
It's my opinion that TT isn't worth 15 mil in any world and under any CBA. He's worth the 12 mil that we offered him if he's a STARTER. On OUR team he's simply not worth as much because of Love Andy Mozgov. It's called supply and demand. We have a big supply of bugs who are better than TT so WE don't have to go for his demand. If another team will give him the max then I'm all for a sign and trade. He's a beast on the boards but honestly that's it.

I'd also be cool with trading Andy.


If TT would've expanded his range to say 18 feet then imo you have no reason but to max him out. But dude is not effective offensively. Max players imo play offense and defense at an above average level. TT isn't even really good on defense. He's average
 
That jump is never going to happen.

The owners will lock the players out after 16/17 and have some kind of different deal in place. After that jump to 108 the cap falls for multiple years in a row, which will create havoc for teams finances.

A max contract at 30% of the cap with 7.5% yearly raises when the cap suddenly starts dropping and then levels out for a few years will be a real problem for teams, and it is just one of a multitude of reasons we are probably going to have a prolonged lockout.

The owners wanted to smooth the cap to avoid these wild run ups and then come downs, and the players weren't interested. The next lockout will be nasty.

The jump is absolutely going to happen. It's based on percentages of the BRI, not some crazy request by the players. The NBA is healthier and more profitable than it has ever been and the players and owners are both going to benefit it. The jump is tied to the new TV deals, the new apparel deal and other huge amount of new expanded revenues the NBA is getting.

There may be a lockout, but it will be based on the players wanting a better cut of the BRI, not the owners trying to give them less. So if anything, there is possibility that after the new CBA, the jump could be even higher.
 
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Gotcha.

Still ways around it. Often it gets reported that a team is going to extend an offer sheet to a player. But until that sheet is faxed to the player and signed and then sent back to the players original team, it is not official. So this presents a window of opportunity where all the parties involved(the two team and the player) can work out a sign and trade if they are so inclined.
 
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The jump is absolutely going to happen. It's based on percentages of the BRI, not some crazy request by the players. The NBA is healthier and more profitable than it has ever been and the players and owners are both going to benefit it. The jump is tied to the new TV deals, the new apparel deal and other huge amount of new expanded revenues the NBA is getting.

There may be a lockout, but it will be based on the players wanting a better cut of the BRI, not the owners trying to give them less. So if anything, there is possibility that after the new CBA, the jump could be even higher.

When millionaires fight billionaires the billionaires always win. Both sides will opt out of the deal, and I've got a bridge to sell you if you don't think the owners will look for a better deal when given the chance.

They will fracture the union because basically unless you are a free agent in those 2 years you get nothing from the bonanza. The owners wanted to make the cap increase more gradual, and then cut the players a check for the remainder of their share of the BRI to be split among everyone and not the few guys at the top of the pay scale (like Lebron and Paul...the 2 new highest ranking members of the union) who stood to really cash in the most with the cap jumping.

For the past 20 years pretty much every CBA in every sport has gotten worse for the players. There is zero reason to think the owners are suddenly going to be magnanimous and give them more than they are already getting knowing that most of these guys can't afford to lose a season and eventually crumble. It happens every time, and it will happen again.
 
It's my opinion that TT isn't worth 15 mil in any world and under any CBA. He's worth the 12 mil that we offered him if he's a STARTER. On OUR team he's simply not worth as much because of Love Andy Mozgov. It's called supply and demand. We have a big supply of bugs who are better than TT so WE don't have to go for his demand. If another team will give him the max then I'm all for a sign and trade. He's a beast on the boards but honestly that's it.

I'd also be cool with trading Andy.


If TT would've expanded his range to say 18 feet then imo you have no reason but to max him out. But dude is not effective offensively. Max players imo play offense and defense at an above average level. TT isn't even really good on defense. He's average

Andy can't be relied on due to his health problems, and he is healthy then he should still be a fourth big that is playing 15 a game at most. Basically he needs to be our version of David Lee.

This means that we need 3 bigs in front of him. Love and Moz are obviously the starters, but TT helps keep their minutes down so that all three will only have to play between 25-30 mins a night.

I agree with you that I would like TT to be better on offense if he's going to get paid that much, and I'm sure he will try to do that as everyone has always said that he's an incredible worker. At the very least though, we know he is one of the best rebounders in the league, which we just witnessed was an invaluable asset that allowed us to get extra possessions.
 
When millionaires fight billionaires the billionaires always win. Both sides will opt out of the deal, and I've got a bridge to sell you if you don't think the owners will look for a better deal when given the chance.

They will fracture the union because basically unless you are a free agent in those 2 years you get nothing from the bonanza. The owners wanted to make the cap increase more gradual, and then cut the players a check for the remainder of their share of the BRI to be split among everyone and not the few guys at the top of the pay scale (like Lebron and Paul...the 2 new highest ranking members of the union) who stood to really cash in the most with the cap jumping.

For the past 20 years pretty much every CBA in every sport has gotten worse for the players. There is zero reason to think the owners are suddenly going to be magnanimous and give them more than they are already getting knowing that most of these guys can't afford to lose a season and eventually crumble. It happens every time, and it will happen again.

The owners are fine with the status quo because its good for them. The owners are not trying to move the BRI lower. If owners win the lockout it will result in the BRI essentially remaining the same and the cap numbers being as projected over the next 4-5 years. There is simply that much new money coming into the NBA.

The fight will be about: eliminating the MAX for top players, eliminating the one and done or making it 2 and done, the players trying to get the BRI raised(in which case those cap projections will be even higher)

If you think the BRI going down is going to be one of the battles in this negotiation, you are simply wrong.
 
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Here's my argument against paying Thompson that much money just because the cap is going to jump in the future.

Does LaMarcus Aldridge get to see his pay increase because of that? Does Marc Gasol? Do players who are free agents or eligible to extend this season and are actually max caliber players get to sign deals that are max deals under the future cap? They don't, because we are still operating under this cap. So while a guy like Aldridge is gonna be underpaid in a couple of years (assuming he signs a max deal this off-season), and a guy like Kevin Love is going to take a big risk and sign only a 1 year deal, Tristan Thompson is gonna try to get security and get grossly overpaid.

Sorry. We're still under the smaller cap. And under this cap, he's not worth 15 million dollars a year. He wants to get paid the same percentage of the cap that he's worth right now, then take a risk like LeBron or Kevin Love and sign a one year deal for his actual value and go after the increase when it happens.
 
Even if TT got the Max, the Max for him is lesser than it is for vets already on Max deals like Aldridge and Gasol. They'd be called MAX deals but the value of Tristans would start at 15.8, while the MAX for Aldridge and Gasol(or Love for that matter) will start at closer to 20 million. Also, I don't think he ends up with that 15.8 max starting point. I think he ultimately signs for a deal starting between 13.5-14.5 per year.

And to say we're under the smaller cap is misleading. If TT signs a 4 year deal and the cap jumps up significantly in years 2, 3, and 4(as its set to do) than the value of his deal changes over time.

But most importantly, what are our options? Let him walk? You take value and replace it with nothing. He walks and all we can add is the taxpayer MLE to replace him. Yes we can use the Haywood contract to get something, but why not keep talent in TT AND use the Haywood deal for additional talent?

Additionally, the LeBron/Rich Paul dynamic can no be ignored. It simply can't. Whether you or I think it should matter or not, it does matter.

Finally, if signing TT to a large deal does prevent us from keeping everyone else, doesn't prevent us from using the Haywood deal to add more talent, and doesn't stop us from using the taxpayer MLE than what beyond the simple gripe that he'd be overpaid is the reason for not doing it?

Its not our money. It's not the real world. It's not doctors, policemen, and civil servants. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to be fair or true value. Is Tristan worth more than the 11 million Steph will make next year. Of course not. But getting Steph isn't an option for us.

Our option is keep Tristan or lose him for nothing. I suppose potentially, we could try and trade him, but that only works with the blessing of LeBron, like it or not.
 

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