The Cavs and the salary cap

[DrunkenBuckeye]

I would love to keep everyone and hope that is how it turns out. I think the core is James, Irving, Mozgov, Love and Thompson. I'd love to keep those guys and fill in around. I have a feeling two of Andy, Love, Thompson will be gone this year or next. In my opinion you have to keep James, Irving and Mozgov.

 

[morgwon]

Great thread. Another person who is an excellent source of CBA minutia is Mark Deeks. Grantland wrote an excellent article on him. He recently wrote this article about a CBA mechanic known as the Maximum Qualifying Offer that he hasn't seen used before which he thinks the Bulls should use on Jimmy Butler.

 

[caf]

Sorry. We're still under the smaller cap. And under this cap, he's not worth 15 million dollars a year. He wants to get paid the same percentage of the cap that he's worth right now, then take a risk like LeBron or Kevin Love and sign a one year deal for his actual value and go after the increase when it happens.

LeBron and KLove can take the risk because they are 7+ year vets and hit their large pay day. The guys coming off rookie contracts are looking to lock up guaranteed contracts. This helps us in Kyries case as he will likely be underpaid when the cap rises, but slightly hurts us now in Tristan's case.

Sounds like a pill I'd swallow.

We already offer a one year deal. It's the Qualifying Offer. He can accept it if he wants. Which is doubtful to me. He will probably look to tie up a long term guaranteed contract. So the market will set his value.

That market value is going to be high. Teams will be willing to 'overpay' Tristan for one year to get his rights moving forward. Since the cap is only skyrocketing, future years of that deal will likely be much closer to Tristan's actual value.

So if I'm David Griffin or Dan Gilbert... Do I let a rebounding machine walk because I was too cheap to overpay him a year?

While you answer that question, remember how slighted LBJ felt at Arison for being cheap and amnestying Miller. Then remember that LBJ is a free agent. Then remember that LBJ's company represent Tristan. Then remember LBJ saying Tristan deserves a fatass contract.

The writing is on the wall my friend.

 

[Real Deal]

TT earned himself at least 14 million a year, a big thanks to Kelly Obitch.

We mine as well pay him. He is a big part going forward, maybe he develops a offensive game in the future.

 

[Rich]

Even if TT got the Max, the Max for him is lesser than it is for vets already on Max deals like Aldridge and Gasol. They'd be called MAX deals but the value of Tristans would start at 15.8, while the MAX for Aldridge and Gasol(or Love for that matter) will start at closer to 20 million. Also, I don't think he ends up with that 15.8 max starting point. I think he ultimately signs for a deal starting between 13.5-14.5 per year.

And to say we're under the smaller cap is misleading. If TT signs a 4 year deal and the cap jumps up significantly in years 2, 3, and 4(as its set to do) than the value of his deal changes over time.

But most importantly, what are our options? Let him walk? You take value and replace it with nothing. He walks and all we can add is the taxpayer MLE to replace him. Yes we can use the Haywood contract to get something, but why not keep talent in TT AND use the Haywood deal for additional talent?

Additionally, the LeBron/Rich Paul dynamic can no be ignored. It simply can't. Whether you or I think it should matter or not, it does matter.

Finally, if signing TT to a large deal does prevent us from keeping everyone else, doesn't prevent us from using the Haywood deal to add more talent, and doesn't stop us from using the taxpayer MLE than what beyond the simple gripe that he'd be overpaid is the reason for not doing it?

Its not our money. It's not the real world. It's not doctors, policemen, and civil servants. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to be fair or true value. Is Tristan worth more than the 11 million Steph will make next year. Of course not. But getting Steph isn't an option for us.

Our option is keep Tristan or lose him for nothing. I suppose potentially, we could try and trade him, but that only works with the blessing of LeBron, like it or not.

I've stated many times what the plan should be. Let him get to restricted free agency.

I don't know why we're acting like he either gets this insane contract or walks for nothing. He's a restricted free agent, so let's treat him like one.

 

[MirORich]

I've stated many times what the plan should be. Let him get to restricted free agency.

I don't know why we're acting like he either gets this insane contract or walks for nothing. He's a restricted free agent, so let's treat him like one.

Oh, I totally agree that we should let the RFA market play out for him, much like the Suns did with fellow Rich Paul repped player Eric Bledsoe. I think it will play out with him either getting an offer sheet for around 13-14.5 million per year that we match or he doesn't get an offer sheet he likes and then we revisit the 12-13 million extension from the fall and bump it up a notch(to bw 13-14.5) million per year.

Just don't see any scenario where we let him go or where we are able to sign him in the 10-12 million range.

 

[nikolajz1]

Tristan needs to add like a baseline 15 foot jumper like Udonis Haslem this offseason. It'd help space the floor just a tad bit better.

 

[DougHeil]

I would love to keep everyone and hope that is how it turns out. I think the core is James, Irving, Mozgov, Love and Thompson. I'd love to keep those guys and fill in around. I have a feeling two of Andy, Love, Thompson will be gone this year or next. In my opinion you have to keep James, Irving and Mozgov.

Shumpert is all of 24 years old. He's a few years from his prime and is already one the better perimeter defenders in the league. He will bet better. Cavs will tie him up long term. Count it. He's part of the core. I'm also pretty sure JR is back. Let's remember we need shooters surrounding our playmakers, LeBron and Kyrie. Add those two to your core and you got it right. And no; Love and Thompson are not going anywhere anytime soon. Bank that as well. I don't see Andy leaving either until he's old enough and not able to play anymore.

 

[ajz20]

Larry Coon is coming 92.3 at 9:40 to go over all the Cavs options with the Cap. Should be a good listen as long as the hosts dont mess it up. I probably wont be bale to listen live, so if someone could give a summery that would be great.

 

[NasstyNate]

TT earned himself at least 14 million a year

Did he?

Look for his name here here here here here here.

Tristan is a hustle player with little discernible skill. Other than an offensive rebound every now and then, he has almost no positive impact on the game overall. It might sound harsh but it becomes apparent when every single metric continually puts him around league average or worse. Numbers don't lie and they are very harsh to TT.

The idea that he is anything close to a max player is simply astounding and reveals either blind homerism or a superficial understanding of the game. Let another team sign him to an offer sheet and hope they are not cunning enough to over pay him knowing that Lebron has this team's balls in a vice grip. Seeing his face in Lebron's Kia commercial about gave me a heart attack. Best case scenario is a sign and trade for depth.

 

[nikolajz1]

Having 25 million a year tied up in Andy and TT is gonna be hilarious.

 

[Lee]

One thing on Gilbert paying "anything for a championship" to remember is the "brand" goes well beyond just the Cavs. He has tied this brand somewhat into the Quicken itself, and more directly (imo) into the casino's in downtown.

Gilbert winning a championship in Cleveland has more financial benefit for him (by far) than any other owner in all of sports.

In this sense we are lucky, in the other sense, just be glad Gilbert fleeced Cleveland on the Casino and has the desire and resources to pay what ever it takes to win because of that.

 

[Lee]

TT earned himself at least 14 million a year, a big thanks to Kelly Obitch.

We mine as well pay him. He is a big part going forward, maybe he develops a offensive game in the future.

Everyone thinks paying TT 14 mill a year is close to the max because the max starts at 15.8 mill a year. Actually there is a big difference.

If we start at 12.5 on a 5 year contract that is 70 mill over 5 years (average of 14 mill a year). A 5 year max will be almost 90 mill or 20 mill more (will be about a 18 mill average a year).

Give TT a 5 year 65-70 mill contract. He played well in the playoffs and was very valuable off the bench. But reality is that he is still a limited player and an energy big. He is a poor man's Rodman, and that has value, but not full max value.

 

[LeBro]

TT earned himself at least 14 million a year, a big thanks to Kelly Obitch.

We mine as well pay him. He is a big part going forward, maybe he develops a offensive game in the future.

You really have to credit his agent for convincing him to turn down the deal. I thought he was crazy for saying no to 4/$52M. In hindsight, it's looking brilliant...

 

[Huber.]

Can we offer Mike Miller a coaching contract worth more money and years than what they are due to pay him this year to get him off the books?