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The ISIS offensive in Iraq

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If only they used this clever deception and sneakiness to push the world forward rather than try to blow it into the stone-age.
 
Wait...kosis, what?

You're asking everyone else to provide you with evidence that it's real? That doesn't make any sense.

How about if you prove it's not real since like 99% of the population believes it's real, including the National Security Council and the FBI. I'd think both groups, trustworthy or not, would have far greater interest in the general public believing it's fake and he's still alive...so why lie? Hell, the Pope buys in too.

I remember these theories swirling around the other three beheading videos. I assume it's somehow tied to the fact that these are horribly put together videos and people don't want to believe that human beings can be so awful.

Either way, I don't get your theory here.
 
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Yea you can expect a tweet of a secret service agent stomping out a bag of shit on fire at the white house gate next.
 
Wait...kosis, what?

You're asking everyone else to provide you with evidence that it's real? That doesn't make any sense.

How about if you prove it's not real since like 99% of the population believes it's real, including the National Security Council and the FBI. I'd think both groups, trustworthy or not, would have far greater interest in the general public believing it's fake and he's still alive...so why lie?

I remember these theories swirling around the other three beheading videos. I assume it's somehow tied to the fact that these are horribly put together videos and people don't want to believe that human beings can be so awful at recording videos.

Either way, I don't get your theory here.

fixed
 
Any suggestions on how we control this region? Long term
 
But who benefits? Anyone who wants to put that bull's eye back on the middle east. Anyone who wants to incite further aggression in the region. The US? Mossad? War mongers in the ME? I honestly have no idea.

Why did you name only the U.S. and Mossad if you "honestly have no idea"?

Anyway, you can concoct any number of explanations for "who benefits". That's the easiest thing in the world for a conspiracy theorist because their starting premise involves an assumed evil motive on the part of the target of their theory. The much better question to ask is who would have an interest in pointing out that something is false. And if the folks who should be screaming "this is fake" aren't doing so, then perhaps you should question the assumption that it is false.

But the most obvious answer to the "who benefits" question is ISIS anyway. They were the ones holding him prisoner, and who have openly claimed responsibility for having done this.

But the video is fake. Everyone has seen the same video. It's edited....Again, I assumed this was real and never went out of my way to watch it. Only did when I heard the rumblings of it being faked.

First, you say this as though it is a self-evidence, inarguable truth, yet you didn't provide a link despite that being the very first thing I asked to see. If you just saw it, you shouldn't have a problem directing the rest of us to it so we can judge for ourselves. Yet despite that being the very first thing I asked for in my post, you didn't link it. So where is it?

Second, "edited" does not equate to being "faked". The stills I've seen show just one guy standing there with a relatively small knife, grasping another man by the neck who is kneeling. The second he actually started cutting the neck, there would likely have been a struggle that would not have made for good propaganda because the perpetrator would like to be perceive as completely in command. I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if ISIS edited out any struggle, and just skipped from the cutting to him being held there while already being dead/bled out. Doesn't make the end result any less real, though.

Third, if it was Mossad, or the U.S., or anyone other than ISIS itself behind that video...how did they get Foley so as to make the video possible in the first place? There doesn't seem to be any dispute that it was really him, or that ISIS had been the organization holding him for a long time. Another released prisoner confirmed they were the ones holding Foley. So it doesn't seem possible for anyone other than ISIS to have made the video at all.

Fourth, if it is as laughably false as you claim, why aren't all sorts of reputable journalists making that same claim? There are plenty of prominent anti-war people in the media in the U.S. and elsewhere. If ordinary people like yourself can see how obviously false it is, there should be an echoing chorus among actual experts. But there isn't.

Fifth, the only specific parties at whom you've pointed a finger are the U.S., and Mossad, so let's start with them Do you really think either the U.S./CIA or Mossad is so incompetent that they'd stage a video that even you and your buddies can so easily recognize as fake? That makes absolutely zero sense. What does make sense is that actual experts (such as the FBI and intelligence services around the world) know that the "flaws" you point to are meaningless. Just because the video was edited does not mean it doesn't show the murder of Mr. Foley.

If you see any evidence to this being authentic, I'd love to hear it.

And if I don't have first-hand evidence that the Holocaust, moon landing, Challenger explosion, or 9/11 attack on the Pentagon were authentic, I guess that makes them bogus too, eh?

Here's my evidence: The FBI -- whose expertise I trust more than yours -- has said its authentic. His family has said that it is him. ISIS, the group known to have been holding it, says it was him and confirmed the killing. And there is no explanation other than ISIS that makes sense. Just for starters, he was a prisoner of ISIS, and they were the only ones who would have been able to make the video in the first place for that reason alone. Additionally:

If the U.S. was not involved in the fake/fraudulent murder of Foley, then the President and almost every other person in the country would have every incentive to point out it is a lie. It is a political negative for the President that this happened on his watch. And all our allies would be expected to also point out that it was "fake".

And if the U.S. or Mossad was involved in producing a fraudulent video, then every enemy the U.S. has in the world would be crying it to the heavens. ISIS itself would be denying it, and would claim it is just more lying by the U.S. and its Jewish Masters in Israel. Arab governments would be pointing it out. Anti-war media publications all over the country -- and anti-war politicians in the U.S. as well -- would be pointing it out.

And it would be a damn wet dream for Vladimir Putin, who would love nothing more than being able to credibly claim that the U.S. has created a fraudulent video to justify another invasion of Iraq.

Yet, nothing. No denial by the U.S. or its allies. No denial by the enemies of the U.S. No denials by any media watchdogs or enterprising journalists. Not even a denial from the people accused of having murdered him in that video.

But, why not tell me your U.S./Mossad theory so we can see if it makes sense?
 
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The only real basis for it being fake is that there is indeed no blood when he starts sawing at that poor guy's throat but it cuts to black pretty quickly (thankfully). I think it's real, mainly because the powers that be say it is. They really have no reason to lie and tell us it's real if it isn't. Not sure why they cut to black in the video, who knows what motive there is.

And lol @ Isis at the White House. Do these people expect us to fear them? They can kill the few Americans they can get their hands on in the Middle East. They can kill some of the soldiers we send to fight them (if we do), although they will pay dearly with their own lives in the process. They can even bring this ridiculous "war" to our shores, maybe launch a terrorist attack that kills American citizens in our own country. But at the end of the day we are vast, we are immensely more powerful in every facet than they are, and they will never, ever "plant the flag of Allah atop the White House" like they claim they will. Never even close. And they know it. That's the laughable part. Their entire existence is a ruse. This Islamic State, this Caliphate, it will never be more than a fart in the grand scheme of the Middle East's troubled history. They'll be snuffed out at some point in the future...either by us, our allies, or their own fucking people since after all these are animals we are dealing with. Not human beings. They already fight each other as relentlessly as they fight us.

Fucking Middle East. Like Jigo said, could not pay me enough to spend one second over there.
 
This Islamic State, this Caliphate, it will never be more than a fart in the grand scheme of the Middle East's troubled history. They'll be snuffed out at some point in the future...either by us, our allies, or their own fucking people since after all these are animals we are dealing with. Not human beings. They already fight each other as relentlessly as they fight us.

Well, every state has ended at some point, though it took the Romans about 2000 years to finally bite the dust. The question is what they can do in the meantime.

So yeah, at some point, they'll be gone. But if everyone just sits back and hopes that they'll fall apart on their own, it could take quite awhile.

They seem understandably unpopular among their fellow Muslims who just want to be left alone in peace. But they're so barbaric that they scare the crap out of people who might otherwise fight back, which gives them a big advantage. I don't want to see U.S. ground troops there, but as a I said upthread, effective close air support can give a lot of courage to troops that might otherwise break and run. We should have been providing that months ago, but hopefully, we'll keep it up now. As a practical matter, Iraqi ground troops are going to have to do the bulk of the fighting, so I hope we get liaison personnel over there to help with some of the leadership issues and to ensure that our airpower is used effectively.

But these guys are pretty numerous, fanatical, and have plenty of money to get weapons, so they're not going to go away easily.
 
Well, every state has ended at some point, though it took the Romans about 2000 years to finally bite the dust. The question is what they can do in the meantime.

So yeah, at some point, they'll be gone. But if everyone just sits back and hopes that they'll fall apart on their own, it could take quite awhile.

They seem understandably unpopular among their fellow Muslims who just want to be left alone in peace. But they're so barbaric that they scare the crap out of people who might otherwise fight back, which gives them a big advantage. I don't want to see U.S. ground troops there, but as a I said upthread, effective close air support can give a lot of courage to troops that might otherwise break and run. We should have been providing that months ago, but hopefully, we'll keep it up now. As a practical matter, Iraqi ground troops are going to have to do the bulk of the fighting, so I hope we get liaison personnel over there to help with some of the leadership issues and to ensure that our airpower is used effectively.

But these guys are pretty numerous, fanatical, and have plenty of money to get weapons, so they're not going to go away easily.

I thought i made it very clear in my post that they won't be around long. Guess not ...


Hope we keep up the air support for the duration of this conflict, at the very least.
 
No to ground troops

Hell no
We should have never left when we did. We left so that a political head could say we did. Iraq was not ready to protect itself yet... Now we probably wind up back there..

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We should have never left when we did. We left so that a political head could say we did. Iraq was not ready to protect itself yet... Now we probably wind up back there..

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Are you kidding me? We shouldn't have been there in the first place.
 
I thought i made it very clear in my post that they won't be around long. Guess not ...

I was just pointing out that they're not going to go away on their own. If someone capable of acting doesn't, they may be there for a lot longer than we might think. Plenty of weird regimes you might think would collapse of their own weight simply don't.
 
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We should have never left when we did. We left so that a political head could say we did. Iraq was not ready to protect itself yet... Now we probably wind up back there..

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This, I agree with. We left Iraq knowing full well that it was only going to be a matter of a few years before it fell again. The government that was established there was a weak one at best. A joke. There were signs of instability still even when we left. But we left, all in the name of fulfilling a timetable obligation and to put a feather in Obama's cap.

Should we have been there in the first place? Ask multiple people, get multiple opinions. Whether or not you think we should have been there has no bearing on this particular point.

The same thing is going to happen in Afghanistan, I fear. Regions that were once secured by us are beginning to fall back into the hands of the Taliban.

These guys are different from al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Shabaab, and every other terrorist organization we have fought over the years. They are brutal. They boast about murdering woman and children, about starving them to death in the mountains where they have no access to supplies needed for survival. I heard a firsthand account about how they tied a woman's hands to one car, her feet to another, and split her in half because she refused to convert to Islam.

That is the type of absolute filth we are dealing with. That is the cancer that is metastasizing by the day in the Middle East. That is the evil incarnate that is so incredibly brutal that they have been denounced by the likes of some of those very same, aforementioned terrorist organizations I mentioned, most notably al-Qaeda.

I'm all for bombing them back to the Stone Age, but I think that we are ultimately going to have boots on the ground in both Iraq and Syria before long. Not as many as the initial offensive, but enough to get the job done. Either way, it's not going to go away until we step up and do something about it. This is a very real threat, and with our southern borders as porous as ever, who's to say that these guys aren't sneaking VBIEDs into the country for a large scale attack already?
 
In the gruesome execution video, the savage terrorist said ISIS will kill another hostage, TIME magazine journalist Steven Sotloff, if Obama and his administration do not meet ISIS' demands.

"The life of this American citizen, Obama, depends on your next decision," the masked executioner said in the footage.

What is this? An episode of "24"?

I don't care what anyone says. This isn't a religious war. This isn't a political war. This is pure delusional evil. No religious or political cause vouches for this kind of brutal aggression.

This is a TV show in Australia called "Insight." Caught this episode the other night and the brainwashing is ridiculously real. There's a pro-ISIS Muslim stumbling through his justification of ISIS' activities, as he attempt to rehash what could only be described as paragraphs in the "ISIS Justification Text Book." Can't believe these people are in our countries.

 

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