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The ISIS offensive in Iraq

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Killing 50 Marines is worth the thousands of lives it would take for them to achieve that? They would kill 50 if they are lucky. But I do think they are crazy enough to do it. Killing 50 Americans really does nothing to help their cause. You think if they attack the base, are repelled, but kill some Marines in the process it will make us less likely to intervene more? I would think it would be the opposite.

I'd say yes. Probably suffer 10-1 loss ratio. Martyrdom is a prized state of being for these people. It would be a great victory for all those who sympathize with the Jihadist ethos losses notwithstanding.

The casualties I quoted are not out of the question for a massive complex attack. There were several battles (Kamdesh, Wanat) in Afghanistan where isolated, company (minus) strength units were besieged and attacked by a couple hundred Taliban resulting in dozens of casualties and 7-9 KIA. The Taliban forces involved could only dream of the numbers of fighters and the amount of equipment that Daesh can bring to the fight.

Right now, the majority of Americans oppose boots on the ground. Dead Marines would only confirm their conviction that any casualties are unnecessary casualties.
 
Don't see how their equipment is a factor. Again, air supremacy in a conventional battle should neutralize any sort of armor they have. But if they think it would be such a great victory to kill a few Americans, then we should expect an attack soon. My philosophy is that ISIS is fighting a losing war. They will never win and attain what they wish to attain.
 
That's the point. Christians have.

But this isn't a religious issue. "Christians" haven't done anything; rather, Christianity itself, as well as it's influence on society, has waned. In Europe, the influence of the Church is minimal at best.

The blame was on ideological Christian's in times of pure ignorance (which is as rich in history) just as the blame is on ideological Islamist's for their ignorance today. It shouldn't be tolerated either way.

I agree. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no difference, I agree. The difference is, me and you are living in it when we are also having scientific discussions about the big bang. Based on the freedoms that I now enjoy as a human being, all forms of ignorance that delay the progression of our species due to philosophical ideology need to be eradicated.

But is this the fault of Islam? There are many nations where freedom of speech is curtailed, including nations where there is no state religion.

The Islam that is practiced by millions upon millions (a minority of the almost 2 billion) need to be eradicated for betterment of human society as a whole.

It needs to be eradicated?

C'mon.

Something has to change.

Agreed, but you're not focused on the right something.
 
If he's saying extremist Islam should be eradicated, I agree.
 
If he's saying extremist Islam should be eradicated, I agree.

I think extremism in general shouldn't be tolerated. There isn't a need for "Islam" to be singled out.
 
Don't see how their equipment is a factor. Again, air supremacy in a conventional battle should neutralize any sort of armor they have. But if they think it would be such a great victory to kill a few Americans, then we should expect an attack soon. My philosophy is that ISIS is fighting a losing war. They will never win and attain what they wish to attain.

Regarding your point, heavy weapons don't only include armored vehicles. Even with air cover to prevent 90% of their armored vehicles and artillery from being used, heavy weapons like recoilless rifles, heavy mortars, doushkas (Soviet 12.7 mm equivalent to the .50 cal M2), 25mm SPAAs mounted on trucks, old anti-tank guns and a shit-ton of RPGs are things that can slip through due to smaller size and the ease with the more complex weapons can be disassembled, conveyed in parts, and put together again, and can be employed to great effect. The Taliban didn't have many of those weapons and were still able to inflict considerable casualties. No reason not to believe ISIS can do better with more and better weapons. But, it won't happen.


The Real Deal

Hypotheticals aside, here is the situation there: A full-scale ISIS attack is highly unlikely and the current narrative is one largely manufactured by the media.

1. The media paints a picture that the Marines are alone and nearly surrounded and have already been attacked. This is bull-shit. Eight suicide bombers attempted to get into the base and were killed. Daesh has been ineffectively employing indirect fire at the base since October, which in itself is nothing remarkable at all.
Happened every day at most bases during the war. Most of us didn't bother getting up from bed during an "attack." It is useful for counter-battery practice though.

2. I have been to Asad, I can tell you it is a big base (the size of a medium city) with a lot of ground and fortifications to overcome. To get to any Marines, Daesh would first have to overwhelm the IA that defend the base. The entire IA 7th Motorized Infantry Division is stationed there; some 9,000 troops. They are a mixed light-medium vehicle unit with a lot of APCs and some tanks plus artillery. These are not Sunni formations (for the most part). They will not run from Daesh like the divisions in the north did. To overcome an entire division bent on fighting would take the entirety of ISIS manpower in Iraq. And even then, the fight would take weeks and IA reinforcements would crush them.

3. If the situation somehow became dire, like the 7th Division fleeing en masse, there would be more than enough time to evacuate the Marines.

4. The media has severely overstated the impact of the ISIS advance in Al-Baghdadi. They caught the IA by surprise captured parts of the town and executed people for the cameras. Their assault was contained and then they were pushed back out of the city. They never assaulted Al-Asad or even increased the volume of their indirect fire. This is a manufactured story.
 
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I think extremism in general shouldn't be tolerated. There isn't a need for "Islam" to be singled out.

I want to live in your world. I don't.

21 Christian heads decapitated on video, burying children alive, using children as soldiers, using women and children as sex slaves, and burning people alive for a production says otherwise. So does pretty much most of Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations where Islam dictates law.

Iran and Jordan are probably the most moderate but even they are mostly bound by the laws of Islam by some interpretation or another. It really doesn't matter because they don't adhere to any science that says otherwise. Human rights might as well be an enemy alien from Mars.

That's the reality. Throw everything out the window because some guy in some text said this and you should interpret that as: "Enter belief here"

How about....

No?

What would happen to me if I said this in these places? If your answer is anything but "You have that right" then... by all means... it's purely religious. People in the ME, for the most part, don't have that right. That's a fact.
 
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You cannot eradicate belief of any kind. You can offer education, enlightenment, call it what you will, but belief is something individuals choose. You can eradicate individuals because of what they believe, but the US is predicated on this being a bad idea. So you are left with consequences for what people do. I dont care why they behead people. They might think Alah told them to do it, or they might think the Great Pumpkin did... its all one. Isil behavoir has earned them an express ticket to martyrdom..
 
I think extremism in general shouldn't be tolerated. There isn't a need for "Islam" to be singled out.

I agree, but Islam is the topic right now isn't it ...
 
Regarding your point, heavy weapons don't only include armored vehicles. Even with air cover to prevent 90% of their armored vehicles and artillery from being used, heavy weapons like recoilless rifles, heavy mortars, doushkas (Soviet 12.7 mm equivalent to the .50 cal M2), 25mm SPAAs mounted on trucks, old anti-tank guns and a shit-ton of RPGs are things that can slip through due to smaller size and the ease with the more complex weapons can be disassembled, conveyed in parts, and put together again, and can be employed to great effect. The Taliban didn't have many of those weapons and were still able to inflict considerable casualties. No reason not to believe ISIS can do better with more and better weapons. But, it won't happen.


The Real Deal

Hypotheticals aside, here is the situation there: A full-scale ISIS attack is highly unlikely and the current narrative is one largely manufactured by the media.

1. The media paints a picture that the Marines are alone and nearly surrounded and have already been attacked. This is bull-shit. Eight suicide bombers attempted to get into the base and were killed. Daesh has been ineffectively employing indirect fire at the base since October, which in itself is nothing remarkable at all.
Happened every day at most bases during the war. Most of us didn't bother getting up from bed during an "attack." It is useful for counter-battery practice though.

2. I have been to Asad, I can tell you it is a big base (the size of a medium city) with a lot of ground and fortifications to overcome. To get to any Marines, Daesh would have to first overwhelm the IA that defend the base. The entire IA 7th Motorized Infantry Division is stationed there. They are a mixed light-medium vehicle unit with a lot of APCs and some tanks plus artillery. These are not Sunni formations (for the most part). They will not run from Daesh like the divisions in the north did. To overcome an entire division bent on fighting would take the entirety of ISIS manpower in Iraq. And even then, the fight would take weeks and IA reinforcements would crush them.

3. If the situation somehow became dire, like the 7th Division fleeing en masse, there would be more than enough time to evacuate the Marines.

4. The media has severely overstated the impact of the ISIS advance in Al-Baghdadi. They caught the IA by surprise captured parts of the town and executed people for the cameras. Their assault was contained and then they were pushed back out of the city. They never assaulted Al-Asad or even increased the volume of their indirect fire. This is a manufactured story.

Yeah, I know heavy weapons don't only include armor, and I know ISIS can do some damage and make their presence felt. They just will never win and that's pretty much fact. The Taliban inflicted casualties over the course of like a decade and a lot of that included IEDs and the such as I mentioned before.

But yeah, regarding the media and the whole al-Asad under siege narrative, makes sense and pretty much what I figured.

Was well aware of indirect fire on the base for months now. But with the militants being ~5 miles of the base, obviously it's a topic. If they wanted to advance past the base, I'd assume they'd need to take it out. Hopefully you're right and that won't happen.
 
I agree, but Islam is the topic right now isn't it ...

That's the whole point... It shouldn't be.

That's the entire point of the post the I made above.
 
That's the whole point... It shouldn't be.

That's the entire point of the post the I made above.

You think I'm reading the religious debate? lol. Just saw that one part and responded.
:chuckle:

I mean the topic is about ISIS...who are radical Islamic extremists tho..
 
You think I'm reading the religious debate? lol. Just saw that one part and responded.
:chuckle:

I mean the topic is about ISIS...who are radical Islamic extremists tho..

Let's end the thread and just call ya racists.

I think that's fair.
 
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Let's end the thread and just call ya racists.

I think that's fair.

I don't think Chris, King Stannis or Q-Tip (who I disagree with on apparently EVERYTHING including how to breathe) are racists; not remotely.

But you though, you're a fucking racist.
 

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