• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

The ISIS offensive in Iraq

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Listen, as a Jew, I think it's beyond possible to be pro-peace while not being against Arabs or Israelis. I consider that to be how I view the conflict. Now, does that mean I support any/all/some/a little of Israel's policies? Absolutely not. A significant portion of their population are treated as second-class citizens. And, unfortunately, I think Netanyahu is the worst offender in decades. I would posit that he makes GWB look like a moderate neoliberal.

The biggest irony to me is he is always so concerned about Israel's security; but, is more than willing to send Israel to war with Hamas and Iran all at the same time.

Finally, in his speech Netanyahu made a claim about Israel being responsible to prevent genocide across the globe. So what has Israel done in Darfur? More to the Middle East, what about Syria (I know it is a politicide, not genocide)? This dude has literally been the cause of so much hatred in the region and has the audacity to claim Israel wants peace and security.

/endrant
 
Who is winning in your opinion and by how much?

To be honest I haven't been reading closely the last four or five pages.

Right now, I am reading a book on the Battle of France (1940) that is 700 pages long. I don't think I would have time to read both. ;)
 
So how exactly does this speech affect ISIS?
 
More importantly, how does it affect young black and hispanic women named Isis?
 
Believe it or not, we've actually gotten somewhere.

Wow...
The U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section II.

Which you and I agree will likely be bypassed because the President won't submit his Agreement as a treaty. That's why I asked, because it means "advice and consent" won't happen.

As noted above was speculation. We can't say it's false because you post an article where someone points out a possible gameplan; and again, Obama cannot lift the ISA and CISADA alone or by executive action.

But It was more than just a "possible gameplan", wasn't it? David Sanger is one of the most respected national affairs writer in the country -- a couple of Pulitzers, Chief Washington Correspondent for the NYT, bucketloads of awards for reporting. That article wasn't just speculating about a theoretical gameplan -- he cited a "senior Administration Official" who told him that's exactly what they intended to do. He also cited Justice Department sources who told him they've prepared papers on how to do it. And if you google "can Obama lift Iran sanctions unilaterally", you'll see that it is pretty much an open secret that's exactly what he's going to try to do, and there are plenty of ways he can stop enforcement even if they are not formally repealed. As you noted:

The President holds the authority to remove the designation of any country from the terrorist list. Though each of the three laws provides slightly different procedures, the authority to delist Iran resides with the President, and generally requires him to find that • there has been a fundamental change in the leadership and policies of the government; • the government is not supporting acts of international terrorism; and • the government has assured that it will not support terrorism in the future.

So yes, he really can just "wave a wand" and make much of it just go away. There is no statutory mechanism for the Congress to challenge delisting/certification.

That's not true in the slightest. Barack Obama could be impeached for refusing the uphold sanctions against Iran. This has nothing to do with immigration.

Theoretically, yes. But everyone -- including Obama -- knows he's not going to be impeached (and certainly there is zero chance he'd be convicted by the Senate). There wasn't even a hint of impeachment when he unilaterally lifted a lot of restrictions on Cuba, or when he refused to enforce immigration laws on the books. Trying to impeach him during his last two years in office, during a Presidential Campaign, not only would fail, but would reward Democrats by handing them the election.

So yes, he can do it, and yes, he'd pretty much get away with it.

You obviously missed a great deal if you think the Administration would deliberately break the law to support Iran,

So you're saying this President is just not the kind of guy who would refuse to enforce laws on the books as a means of advancing his agenda? Sure you're not the one who has missed a great deal?

and you'd be insane if you think the Iranians would suspend their nuclear program without assurances that the next President wouldn't just walk in and reimpose sanctions.

Why not? If a new President reverses that, then they'll just say the Agreement is no longer binding on them, which would turn it from a rumored 10 year agreement to just 2. Even better for them.

And I'm "insane" to believe that Iran would sign a deal without Congressional action? You've overplayed your hand a bit on that one. Iran already has stated that it would accept Obama bypassing Congress and not require a formal lifting of the sanctions by Congress. Which, incidentally. would be a wildly incongruous statement unless they had reason to believe that's what was going to happen.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/iranian-official-on-sanctions/

I highly doubt the Administration takes this course of action, regardless of what the NYT says.

That's the core of our disagreement, because I think it will. And I don't think I'm going out on a limb with that, either.

But .... again ..... this has nothing to do with Netanyahu's speech now does it?

To me, it is the core justification for Boehner inviting Netanyahu. If I thought that Obama would submit this agreement to Congress as a treaty for ratification, or at least continue to enforce the sanctions, I would agree that it was wrong of Boehner to invite Netanyahu. But I don't think Obama will do that, and I think the weight of evidence suggest he won't.
 
Last edited:
Who is winning in your opinion and by how much?

I personally don't know enough about who may or may not be at fault with Bibi coming here to speak so I'm staying out of it. I have to say both sides are making really good points so it's hard to tell who might be "winning". :)

I do have a question or comment though, that members much smarter than me might be able to answer:

Valerie Jarrett is Mr. Obama's closest adviser and trusted confidant in the Administration.... is this right? She was born in Iran. Is this right? We have heard very little from her in the past 6 years.... is this right?

Does anyone else find all of this as puzzling as I do? I think the majority of us believe something of a better deal could be struck with Iran. I also think the majority of us believe that the current deal being discussed might not be in the best interest of the USA and other countries.

Why is Mr. Obama so set on forging ahead with a deal with Iran?
 
Valerie Jarrett is Mr. Obama's closest adviser and trusted confidant in the Administration.... is this right? She was born in Iran. Is this right? We have heard very little from her in the past 6 years.... is this right? Does anyone else find all of this as puzzling as I do?

Yes, yes....and no, no.

She's in the news quite a bit, but I don't find the fact that she was born in Iran -- to two American parents -- to be of interest or relevant.

I think the majority of us believe something of a better deal could be struck with Iran. I also think the majority of us believe that the current deal being discussed might not be in the best interest of the USA and other countries.

I don't know whether or not Iran would strike a better deal. Just like when people claim that we "could" have gotten a better deal when it comes to trading players, I think it's something that's generally unknowable unless you can mind-read the Iranian leadership.

Why is Mr. Obama so set on forging ahead with a deal with Iran?

I personally think he is much less concerned about Iran getting a weapon, than he is about looking badly if Iran gets a weapon while he is President. A deal that simply slows things down a bit would be fine, even if the deal meant that they could get almost there.

Of course, that's speculative, because actually knowing what he thinks is impossible. At least, for any of us.
 
I personally don't know enough about who may or may not be at fault with Bibi coming here to speak so I'm staying out of it. I have to say both sides are making really good points so it's hard to tell who might be "winning". :)

Thanks Doug.

I do have a question or comment though, that members much smarter than me might be able to answer:

Sure.

Valerie Jarrett is Mr. Obama's closest adviser and trusted confidant in the Administration.... is this right?

No.

She was born in Iran. Is this right?

Yes.

We have heard very little from her in the past 6 years.... is this right?

No.

Does anyone else find all of this as puzzling as I do?

No.

I think the majority of us believe something of a better deal could be struck with Iran. I also think the majority of us believe that the current deal being discussed might not be in the best interest of the USA and other countries.

Agreed!

Why is Mr. Obama so set on forging ahead with a deal with Iran?

Obama feels that there is little alternative.

If no deal is struck soon, by 2017 we will likely be at war with Iran. That's not merely speculation either.

The lay of the lands is as follows: this Administration, particularly Obama and Kerry believe the next President (unless it's Rand Paul) will almost assuredly support air strikes against the Iranians. It's just, the facts of who is currently running for office.

So this is pretty much our last chance.

Netanyahu wants the United States to ramp up sanctions and wait. But wait for what? Everyone on the left criticized him for not offering a more concrete solution, but he did --- he's saying "wait (until Obama is a lame duck President)."
 
Question by someone who isn't admittedly well versed in what's going on.

If we ended support to Israel (which I don't think anyone supports?), what would ultimately happen?
 
Question by someone who isn't admittedly well versed in what's going on.

If we ended support to Israel (which I don't think anyone supports?), what would ultimately happen?

Israel would likely be forced to make peace with it's neighbors.

An independent Palestinian state would almost assuredly be forced on the Israelis by the United Nations, Europe and Russia (pretty much the rest of the world).

And Israel would need to find a way to pay for one of the most advanced militaries on Earth. Meaning, they would downsize their military and stop bombing the Palestinians as often.

But, I don't advocate for the U.S. to stop supporting Israel. Israel is our ally, and rightfully so. But we need to change the nature of this relationship with Israel to something more of a partnership, as we have with say the UK.

An attack on Israel could be considered an attack on the United States; I'm totally okay with our military alliance. I'm just not okay with us supplying them with free weapons, in the tens of billions of dollars worth of free weapons. Weapons that are used to kill Arabs and create the enemy they keep warning us about..

We're obviously being manipulated, but it's not the Israelis to blame; it's our own military industrial complex.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of how we use our Security Council veto to protect Israel when they are clearly acting immorally.

Sometimes it takes a friend to tell someone they're wrong. That's how I would approach changing the US-Israeli relationship to something that is more positive for everyone involved, including the Israelis.
 
Last edited:
Israel would likely be forced to make peace with it's neighbors.

Probably so.

An independent Palestinian state would almost assuredly be forced on the Israelis by the United Nations, Europe and Russia (pretty much the rest of the world).

I support eliminating foreign aid to every country, but since that will never happen, I might as well throw in another stance I support that will never happen, exiting the United Nations. A U.N. without the United States wouldn't be forcing anything on anyone. Though Israel might agree to an independent Palestinian state voluntarily in that scenario.

And Israel would need to find a way to pay for one of the most advanced militaries on Earth. Meaning, they would downsize their military and stop bombing the Palestinians as often.

It would be even harder on their welfare state. They can't cut the military too much with the enemies they have over there.
 
Question by someone who isn't admittedly well versed in what's going on.

If we ended support to Israel (which I don't think anyone supports?), what would ultimately happen?
Does this mean we end aid to Egypt too because it is predicated on their support of Israel? If that is the case Middle Eastern regimes may start to take the U.S. seriously when they claim opposition to human rights violations/

I think the solution is too start using aid more selectively. So, first off, when there is a conflict like this summer all military aid be suspended and replaced with humanitarian aid for both Israel and Palestine. Now, this is slightly problematic, because unlike almost every other country, Israel's aid is front loaded. This leads to my second point, Israel needs to receive aid like other countries. According to Stephen Walt:

"Most recipients of American foreign aid get their money in quarterly installments, but since 1982, the annual foreign aid bill has included a special clause specifying that Israel is to receive its entire annual appropriation in the first thirty days of the fiscal year." (Israel Lobby, 27)


This is problematic because it prevents Washington from allocating aid to Israel based on circumstance.

I think if these two things change we can start moving towards a lasting peace. Although, I don't see that happening for a number of years until trust between Israelis and Palestinians, which rightfully does not exist today, is fostered.
 
Sam Harris said:
We recognize that Islam is a million different things and that some versions of it are tolerant, peaceful, etc. But a jihadi death cult is destroying Syria and Iraq right now, and we’re going to kill these barbarians tomorrow. Any of you peaceful people inclined to pick the wrong side here?

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-true-believers

Just an excerpt from that interview Sam Harris conducted buy damn if it isn't a pretty solid line on what Islam can be to different people.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top