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The Jonas V thread
- Thread starter wuck
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Shakalu M.D.
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I don't doubt Jonas has skills, most highly touted Euro big men do. The one in that video is hardly anything special. It was mostly just horrible defense.
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Until I get to watch Jonas play a full game and see his overall skill level in context, then these highlights are as meaningless as draft prospect mix tapes. Anyone can look good when you only post highlight plays.
Remember the game recap of Tristan's first or second preseason game this year? Where he completely dominated most of the game? Tons of dunks, strong post moves, blocks. Then he had that other game last week where he pretty much had a double double by halftime? Well Toronto fans could theoretically be playing the same game on their message board. If you just post those highlights out of context, you'd think Tristan has turned into a pure monster in the offseason. But we know better because we are seeing the whole picture here... Flashes of really great improvement by TT, mixed with a lot of the same same old mistakes. Typical of a growing player.
A few good moves don't make a great player. Lets see how he does over the course of the season. Jonas also has the Rubio advantage of a lot of pro experience despite being young. Heck if Iriving didn't happen to be so special, a 5th pick from 3 years ago would have won Rookie of the Year last year. Euro experience means something.
TL;DR - Not realistic to judge on highlight plays for any player. Lets see him in a full game context to evaluate reality.
Remember the game recap of Tristan's first or second preseason game this year? Where he completely dominated most of the game? Tons of dunks, strong post moves, blocks. Then he had that other game last week where he pretty much had a double double by halftime? Well Toronto fans could theoretically be playing the same game on their message board. If you just post those highlights out of context, you'd think Tristan has turned into a pure monster in the offseason. But we know better because we are seeing the whole picture here... Flashes of really great improvement by TT, mixed with a lot of the same same old mistakes. Typical of a growing player.
A few good moves don't make a great player. Lets see how he does over the course of the season. Jonas also has the Rubio advantage of a lot of pro experience despite being young. Heck if Iriving didn't happen to be so special, a 5th pick from 3 years ago would have won Rookie of the Year last year. Euro experience means something.
TL;DR - Not realistic to judge on highlight plays for any player. Lets see him in a full game context to evaluate reality.
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This isn't saying that I don't think Jonas is or will be a good player... I liked him on draft night, and those highlights def look good. If he's a player that can do that game in and game out I'll definitely be jealous. But if Tristan can learn to play like his flashes of brilliance game in and game out too, I'm not gonna be too jealous of Toronto.
With all these young players drafted in the last 2 years we're going to have to be patient and wait and see. That goes for Cavs picks and any players we may have passed up.
Outside of the Irving pick (a no brainer), I haven't been completely on board with Grant's other choices or draft day decisions. I've at least come to understand them and accept them for the most part except for the Thompson pick. It just appears he will be an average player at his position. PF is also the easiest position to fill in the NBA and in different drafts a Thompson level PF could likely be taken mid 1st round.
I want Thompson to succeed and am not at all saying he will be a bust or was a horrible choice. I have said from the start though that if you have 2 players ranked closely and if neither one may turn out to be elite at their position, that you always take the C over the PF. Especially since that is the harder position to fill.
This discussion will go on for a while since we won't know the answer for another 3-5 years. It does seem though that the decision to take Thompson has had a major effect on other Cavs draft decisions. Led them to have to give up 3 picks to move up 7 spots for Zeller and pretty much took Drummond out of the equation this year since he and Thompson wouldn't be a good efficient combo up front. Also took Robinson out of the discussion at #4 this year too and made the Cavs have to look for who they felt could be a scorer since Thompson is likely to not be a versatile scorer you can go to at the PF position. Goes back to the difference at C and PF where scorers at PF are easier to find than scorers at C.
Jonas has shown signs of being a good C but it's way too early to make any real judgment.
Outside of the Irving pick (a no brainer), I haven't been completely on board with Grant's other choices or draft day decisions. I've at least come to understand them and accept them for the most part except for the Thompson pick. It just appears he will be an average player at his position. PF is also the easiest position to fill in the NBA and in different drafts a Thompson level PF could likely be taken mid 1st round.
I want Thompson to succeed and am not at all saying he will be a bust or was a horrible choice. I have said from the start though that if you have 2 players ranked closely and if neither one may turn out to be elite at their position, that you always take the C over the PF. Especially since that is the harder position to fill.
This discussion will go on for a while since we won't know the answer for another 3-5 years. It does seem though that the decision to take Thompson has had a major effect on other Cavs draft decisions. Led them to have to give up 3 picks to move up 7 spots for Zeller and pretty much took Drummond out of the equation this year since he and Thompson wouldn't be a good efficient combo up front. Also took Robinson out of the discussion at #4 this year too and made the Cavs have to look for who they felt could be a scorer since Thompson is likely to not be a versatile scorer you can go to at the PF position. Goes back to the difference at C and PF where scorers at PF are easier to find than scorers at C.
Jonas has shown signs of being a good C but it's way too early to make any real judgment.
Tornicade
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and JV didnt want to goto Cleveland anyways. so forget him. He is the enemy.
th1
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He didn't ?
Adam
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There was alot of talk about JV's agent not willing to give the cavs clear details of his buyout arrangement with his team. Thats really the case that makes him a non-factor for the cavs. They didn't want to waste a pick that might stay abroad for a few years a la rubio, they needed talent that wanted to play
Mdog1
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It would have been a very hard sell to the fans imo. So umm yeah guys we drafted this kid, he looks great you might see him in 2 years. Oh that would have went well. People would have been pissed that we suffered that horrible season only to have two top 5 picks, and one of them not even play for us for potentially years.
As for Jonas's play he looks great in preseason where nobody is trying except young players who are hopeful to stay on NBA rosters...
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Absolutely not the case.
Second game against Detroit, Greg Monroe took Jonas harrassing defense personal and tried to punish him with an Al Jefferson assortment of moves including some body elbows that Jonas didnt back down from. Greg Monroe is no Charles Oakley or Shaq, but he was going 100% and Jonas still held his own in that span of a few trips where you could see Monroe was trying to attack him.
Not trying to be the defense attorney, just watched a few games intently and that was the case for this game and this matchup.
Tornicade
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wanna talk to head about "hanging" with someone as a rookie
| Rk | Player | Date | Tm | Opp | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
|---|
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| 5 | Greg Monroe | 2012-03-28 | DET | @ | CLE | W | 1 | 32:18 | 4 | 13 | .308 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | .000 | 3 | 7 | 10 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 8 | |
| 6 | Tristan Thompson | 2012-03-28 | CLE | DET | L | 1 | 29:58 | 3 | 12 | .250 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 4 | .750 | 6 | 5 | 11 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 9 | ||
| 7 | Greg Monroe | 2012-04-17 | DET | CLE | W | 1 | 27:12 | 4 | 7 | .571 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 1.000 | 1 | 12 | 13 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 12 | ||
| 8 | Tristan Thompson | 2012-04-17 | CLE | @ | DET | L | 1 | 34:25 | 6 | 16 | .375 | 0 | 1 | .000 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 8 | 13 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 3 | 12 |
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Not completely sure about that although we may never know 100%. I tried to follow the Jonas situation pretty closely leading up to the 2011 draft because I figured the chances were good he could become a Cav. I remember from what I was able to find and read back then that it had become clear that Jonas would spend 1 more season overseas and then come to the NBA. Contract details and the buyout made that necessary.
Maybe the Cavs didn't want to wait 1 season for a player. I don't know. That would seem a little foolish though considering they're committed to a patient long term building process and 1 year really isn't going to make any difference with that. Cavs would seem to be a good situation for him and they should have felt they were too with a local Lithuanian community, the history with Z and then ending up making Z a part of the organization which signs point to that being the plan all along.