The Jonas V thread

[Jack Brickman]

I think that Cavs maybe didn't want to pay for the club that had rights to JV. That club at the time had very bad problems with money and they wanted to milk as much money out of JV as they could.

NBA teams can only pay a set amount for buyouts I believe, and I doubt that had anything to do with it. We're talking about the franchise that is probably still paying Baron Davis an ungodly amount of money.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Moving on, however.

No way in hell Toronto would trade him ATM, he is REALLY starting to break through right now and his IQ for the game is ridiculous. I think only Marc Gasol compares as a big man with IQ. They will build around him, Masaj is a good GM.

We are stuck trying to trade for the ever allusive big man/rim protector even though we had a CHOICE at one point in time to just draft one. (shrugs)

Encouraging to know that we have a very similar young player in Karasev who has been the leader of a similar U-19 team and plays with his IQ just the same. Unfortunate that he is not a 7 footer.

 

[rabman_gold]

I apologize if I don't have the complete specs for both guys, but I'll rely on some stats and observations from the members here.

Tristan is really not better or worse than Jonas. They're different. And that main difference, their size, tends to stand out in their games:

Tristan is 6'8", 6'9" is being really nice. He's a tiny bit short for the classical power forward. But he's somewhat more active, like Andy.

Jonas is 6'11", 7'0", which is a norm for a center. It also looks like he put on weight to bruise in the paint, as his game is evidenced.

Jonas make a lot of his baskets in the paint area, below 10-8 feet. There might be a chance that Amir draws a lot of attention because of this so Jonas can use his length to make shots. Tristan has a complete carbon copy of a teammate who moves the same way in Andy. So he's forced to take open jumpers outside of 10-15 feet and needs to cut to get the bunnies. For the most part, there's many 45% shots that are taken throughout the shot chart. Now don't get me wrong, Jonas can hit the outside shot, but it's not a part of the team's game as much.

They're almost virtually identical in all other parts. Tristan doesn't have the luxury to play with a floor stretcher and if they did, Mike doesn't play them together a lot. So defenses really play off TT with the ball and stay on him without. Despite that, in 4 more minutes a game, he's managing just fine as an undersized 4 with a 5's game.

Only thing I see different is Tristan draws fouls more often, turns it over a bit less, and his win shares per 48 is much less than Jonas.

 

[Triumph36]

As much as we as fans hate to admit it plays a role, and as much as it shouldn't play a role, the backlash from the public if the Cavs took a player in the draft who didn't come over LESS THAN A YEAR after their best player (and hometown kid) publicly kicked the franchise in the balls would be enormous.

In a perfectly rational world, public perception shouldn't play a role in these decisions, but we don't live in a perfectly rational world.

i really hate this.

though to counter that i will say he wasn't their only pick, they still were getting a shiny new draftee - the #1 overall, a much more highly touted player. that would've softened the blow quite a bit. now if they only had the #4 pick, then this argument is different (but then taking thompson over jv would've been much worse, haha).

and maybe it's just me, but i really don't think the public cared much about thompson. how many were even at all familiar with him? he wasn't elite in college. wasn't a super highly touted HSer. didn't lead texas super deep in the tournament. i mean, i don't think the average fan really had much of a clue about the kid.

TT is better than JV. Haters can't accept that.

lol

Moving on, however.

No way in hell Toronto would trade him ATM, he is REALLY starting to break through right now and his IQ for the game is ridiculous. I think only Marc Gasol compares as a big man with IQ. They will build around him, Masaj is a good GM.

We are stuck trying to trade for the ever allusive big man/rim protector even though we had a CHOICE at one point in time to just draft one. (shrugs)

Encouraging to know that we have a very similar young player in Karasev who has been the leader of a similar U-19 team and plays with his IQ just the same. Unfortunate that he is not a 7 footer.

heh....especially if the cavs somehow were able to nab love. perfect frontcourt mate.

ah well, just gives grant more holes to fill.

To follow up on Ford, there was similar speculation the night of the draft related to Jonas's agent/management. Some were saying that the Cavs could not get a commitment to have Jonas V come over in 2 years, and then, like magic, the Raptors announced the next day that he was coming over in one year. That was pretty disappointing to have things just work out with the Raptors as if it was fine all along.

Cavs fans would have been impatient to have to wait 1 year but the Cavs could have sold that. To have to wait 2 years (or an indefinite number of years) is asking a whole lot from a fanbase, especially when you want your draft picks to learn together.

I wanted them to draft Jonas then but I didn't think it was a mistake to go in a different direction considering what was whispered about then and confirmed by Ford more recently.

then you wait. what difference has thompson made in the meantime? not a whole lot. a year or two is really not a long time when your franchise player is all of 19 years old. they had a massive window and time was on their side.

he wouldn't stay over there forever. rubio was one of 3 pgs drafted in a single draft by minnesota of all places. yes, it took him some time to make it over..... but he ultimately did.

 

[czvo]

i really hate this.

though to counter that i will say he wasn't their only pick, they still were getting a shiny new draftee - the #1 overall, a much more highly touted player. that would've softened the blow quite a bit. now if they only had the #4 pick, then this argument is different (but then taking thompson over jv would've been much worse, haha).

and maybe it's just me, but i really don't think the public cared much about thompson. how many were even at all familiar with him? he wasn't elite in college. wasn't a super highly touted HSer. didn't lead texas super deep in the tournament. i mean, i don't think the average fan really had much of a clue about the kid.

lol

heh....especially if the cavs somehow were able to nab love. perfect frontcourt mate.

ah well, just gives grant more holes to fill.

then you wait. what difference has thompson made in the meantime? not a whole lot. a year or two is really not a long time when your franchise player is all of 19 years old. they had a massive window and time was on their side.

he wouldn't stay over there forever. rubio was one of 3 pgs drafted in a single draft by minnesota of all places. yes, it took him some time to make it over..... but he ultimately did.

That's not what I was trying to say. It wasn't about Tristan vs. JV as much as it was someone vs. no one.

 

[STAT]

Moving on, however.

No way in hell Toronto would trade him ATM, he is REALLY starting to break through right now and his IQ for the game is ridiculous. I think only Marc Gasol compares as a big man with IQ. They will build around him, Masaj is a good GM.

We are stuck trying to trade for the ever allusive big man/rim protector even though we had a CHOICE at one point in time to just draft one. (shrugs)

Encouraging to know that we have a very similar young player in Karasev who has been the leader of a similar U-19 team and plays with his IQ just the same. Unfortunate that he is not a 7 footer.

You keep calling him that. It's Masai. Masai Ujiri.

This was of crucial importance to this thread.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Our imaginary center going against our other imaginary center. With Embiid coming over and Okafor/Karl Towns Jr next, these young dudes would give our team head aches in the future if we don't address that gaping hole in the middle. Glad to see the league have some young big men playing.

[video=youtube;yAh_zlKzYlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAh_zlKzYlk[/video]

 

[Jstock12]

I apologize if I don't have the complete specs for both guys, but I'll rely on some stats and observations from the members here.

Tristan is really not better or worse than Jonas. They're different. And that main difference, their size, tends to stand out in their games:

Tristan is 6'8", 6'9" is being really nice. He's a tiny bit short for the classical power forward. But he's somewhat more active, like Andy.

Jonas is 6'11", 7'0", which is a norm for a center. It also looks like he put on weight to bruise in the paint, as his game is evidenced.

Interesting overview, thanks for that. If the second number is wingspan these measurements seem inaccurate. The correct ones are:

Tristan 6' 7.5" (w/o shoes) with a wingspan of 7' 1.25" and 9' 0.5" standing reach.
Jonas is 6' 11" (w/o shoes) with a wingspan of 7. 4.5" and 9' 3" standing reach.

 

[Jstock12]

Our imaginary center going against our other imaginary center. With Embiid coming over and Okafor/Karl Towns Jr next, these young dudes would give our team head aches in the future if we don't address that gaping hole in the middle. Glad to see the league have some young big men playing.

[video=youtube;yAh_zlKzYlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAh_zlKzYlk[/video]

Might be a nice lesson for Drummond - ALWAYS READ YOUR SCOUTING REPORTS.

 

[Triumph36]

That's not what I was trying to say. It wasn't about Tristan vs. JV as much as it was someone vs. no one.

yes i know. but i'm saying we had someone already, so it wouldn't have been an "empty draft" even with jv. i don't think it would've gotten that much backlash, especially since we were keeping the #4 pick overseas and not the #1 pick.

i dunno, i just have a hard time believing people would care that much about swapping out an unremarkable pick for a guy they might not see in cleveland for a year or two. had it been some super coveted prospect, i'd think otherwise, but just a run-of-the-mill prospect like thompson...eh. bringing in kyrie should've given them some breathing room.

maybe i'm wrong and there would've been a ton of outrage. either way, i hate hate hate catering to the average fans.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Dion and Tristan are both good players. To say he fucked up by picking either is moronic. Fucking up implies the guys he picked are not good NBA players. Thompson is averaging damn near a double-double and has started to develop a mid-range game, and the Cavs always look better when Dion is on the floor (and this is backed by statistics). Dion is also the guy other teams are supposedly always calling about, so he clearly has value around the league.

Bennett you can absolutely argue right now, although given how terrible the 2013 draft class has been it's hard to say we really missed on anyone we would have actually drafted. And even then it's entirely too early to say the guy is a bust. He might be, but then again, he might not be. We just don't know yet.

He fucked up because he had the opportunity to draft those players and they were both DEFINITELY on the radar. Unlike the TT or Dion pick which were out of left field. But like I said, if his "analytics" showed that Dion and TT were the better players, then he has some "fine tuning" to do.

There is no one in hell, Toronto or Detroit would trade their two bigs straight up for TT or Dion. You can argue it all you want but their management and team will be laughing in our faces if CG came to them with a straight up offer. Add to the fact that both JV and AD have excellent size for their position and we drafted 2 players who are undersized at the position that we want them to play. So yeah, Dion was a fuck up pick cause he was suppose to play SG but now is relegated to coming off the bench so he can put more minutes at the point. If that's not a fuck up, then I don't know what is.

I get the argument that "TT and Dion is on our team so we must support them". It's not about them, it's about CG and his drafting history where he thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

 

[rabman_gold]

You know what, I can't wait until we get a half-way decent big so everybody can stop griping about JV and AD...

It will be quite soon, but we'll have to be patient. But I think it'll work out.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

You know what, I can't wait until we get a half-way decent big so everybody can stop griping about JV and AD...

It will be quite soon, but we'll have to be patient. But I think it'll work out.

It's not gonna be through the draft that's for sure. CG avoids drafting adequate size bigs like it's the bubonic plague.

 

[rabman_gold]

It's not gonna be through the draft that's for sure. CG avoids drafting adequate size bigs like it's the bubonic plague.

Big deal, there will be a chance. You can say that since we were able to get a real two way all-star pretty cheap. Getting a center will cost more, but there aren't as many buyers since most of them are in the draft. On that note, why compete with nearly half the whole league in tanking at this point? I think you'll get your wish sometime this year or next year same time. But it requires patience.

 

[Jstock12]

Big deal, there will be a chance. You can say that since we were able to get a real two way all-star pretty cheap. Getting a center will cost more, but there aren't as many buyers since most of them are in the draft. On that note, why compete with nearly half the whole league in tanking at this point? I think you'll get your wish sometime this year or next year same time. But it requires patience.

For me as a Lithuanian, it would be so cool to witness the Cavs choosing Domas Sabonis, the youngest and most promising son of Arvydas Sabonis, as well as the No.1 Lithuanian prospect aged 18 and under. He's now 17 years old and somewhere between 6'10-6'11 and playing in Euroleague and Spanish league with grown men (albeit very limited minutes). Maybe by the time he's in the draft, Grant is out and Big Z is the GM, lol.