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The Military Thread

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If Army says it takes 55 minutes then it really takes two hours.

The number of events doubles the necessary personnel needed to test people, to say nothing of the set-up that used to consist of some mats for sit-ups, and a track, to all kinds of shit that now needs to be added to the hand-receipt.

Generals always have bright ideas. But will someone think of the poor E-7 that's too old for this shit?

The poor old E-7 is exactly who they’re trying to force out, eventually leaving the force with a bunch of undisciplined turds that don’t know how to perform the duties of their MOS.

This is definitely not the same Army that I joined. Change was certainly on the horizon, and soldiers are able to get away with more than ever before. Pushing out the crusty, old school vets that still have some semblance of order and discipline will only make it worse.

And no, rushing AIT platoon sergeants through a quick ten day course to make them into drill sergeants isn’t the answer, either.
 
Lol... this is going to take hours to administer for an average sized company.

Where are they getting all the money for all this additional equipment? When are units supposed to train soldiers in how to properly perform this stuff when they’re already inundated with an absurd amount of mandatory training already, per AR 350-1 (even with some of the stuff they just got rid of)? Proper lifting technique isn’t exactly something you can throw on a PowerPoint and explain in five minutes. How are units going to weight train when weight equipment, gyms, etc. are already limited in space and availability on a normal morning during the duty week? Can’t exactly practice dragging sleds and deadlifting by just doing muscle failure on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

And no alternate events? Are they just going to do away with permanent profiles altogether? Deploy or get out doesn’t even make sense here, as anyone who is on a P2 profile is still deployable. The only time they’re not is if they can’t wear protective gear, in which case it’s a P3 and they’re being processed for a medical separation anyway.

Sounds great in theory, but I’m expecting this to be a complete shit show when it’s rolled out and then the powers that be will have to adjust fire, due to people failing and getting hurt. Also expecting attrition to skyrocket if they really want to push people out that have permanent profiles.

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It also said that the test would based on your MOS.

Mattis approved way to get women out of combat roles? Idk. Infantry will certainly have the toughest version of this test.

Paper pushers should be ok.
 
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It also said that the test would based on your MOS.

Mattis approved way to get women out of combat roles? Idk. Infantry will certainly have the toughest version of this test.

Paper pushers should be ok.

From what I read, there won't even be different standards for age. But the test will not only take into account MOS, but also specific job. So, even though there won't be an age breakdown, the standard for a regimental commander would be different from the standard for a platoon commander, even though both are infantry officers. I think that's going to get way too detailed, with far too many different standards.

I do think part of the reason for this is women. Everyone knew that grunts had to be in better shape that admin types, but there weren't formal standards. It was just sort of done ad hoc, but since it was all male and there wasn't any basis for challenging someone not getting assigned to the infantry, there wasn't a need to formalize different standards. That basically bit the Army and Marines in the ass when the movement came to include women, because the lack of formal physical standards meant that there wasn't an objective basis for exclusion at the entry phase other than gender.
 
Who was the better general?

Lannes or Davout?

@The Human Q-Tip @jking948 @Marcus

Very tough call, and I'm not sufficiently well-versed enough to make it.

On the side of Lannes, you have that he came from nothing, and was probably better at independent command than was Davout. Davout may have been better at the operational/tactical level. Aeurstadt was simply brilliant.
 
Very tough call, and I'm not sufficiently well-versed enough to make it.

On the side of Lannes, you have that he came from nothing, and was probably better at independent command than was Davout. Davout may have been better at the operational/tactical level. Aeurstadt was simply brilliant.

I think only maybe three of Napoleon's marshals were truly capable of independent command and Lannes was one of them.

Davout was a case of opposites in that he was tactically brilliant as you note, but floundered with independent commands.
 
I think this is an interesting movement that's currently happening (and has been happening for a couple years now)....

Military pilots are leaving at alarming rates, particularly with the tac air communities- those that have the longest training times and are executing direct action in foreign countries.

AF was losing pilots at a "crisis level" and started offering up to an additional $35k a year to stay in. I have no idea if this is working for them.

Navy bumped their annual bonuses from $25K to $35K a year, and from what I can tell... isn't making a lick of difference. I believe the Marines are trying to implement a similar program. Additionally, the Marines have put out they will not allow any transfers to other branches, and from what I glean from my green brethren, the last time they did that, it was prior to a stop loss.

Where this hurts is those at the senior Junior Officer and Department Head level (I believe this is company grade for you foot people.) They're currently pulling O's from their Shore tour (done after their first Sea Tour) to send them back to the fleet and support deployed squadrons. While this may not sound like a big deal to some of you, when you're expecting 2-3 years of a more normal day and being able to come home to your family on most of those days, it leave quite a bit of a sour taste... of note, these are not people that have already committed to more time, they are the ones on the last 1-2 years of their commitment. Finally, they're also saying that promotion and DH selection is going to be 100% for the next year or so (that's not official). What does that mean? Anyone who wants to stay in, can, and they'll get those bonuses.

All in all, you're still looking at a shortage of pilots. And, with those that you'd want to keep getting out, you're getting a worse product and the mid to senior level of aviators that are supposed to be flying down range dropping bombs on bad guys.

So, anyone have an idea how to fix it? Is there a solution until the airlines stop hiring?
 
I think this is an interesting movement that's currently happening (and has been happening for a couple years now)....

Military pilots are leaving at alarming rates, particularly with the tac air communities- those that have the longest training times and are executing direct action in foreign countries.

AF was losing pilots at a "crisis level" and started offering up to an additional $35k a year to stay in. I have no idea if this is working for them.

Navy bumped their annual bonuses from $25K to $35K a year, and from what I can tell... isn't making a lick of difference. I believe the Marines are trying to implement a similar program. Additionally, the Marines have put out they will not allow any transfers to other branches, and from what I glean from my green brethren, the last time they did that, it was prior to a stop loss.

Where this hurts is those at the senior Junior Officer and Department Head level (I believe this is company grade for you foot people.) They're currently pulling O's from their Shore tour (done after their first Sea Tour) to send them back to the fleet and support deployed squadrons. While this may not sound like a big deal to some of you, when you're expecting 2-3 years of a more normal day and being able to come home to your family on most of those days, it leave quite a bit of a sour taste... of note, these are not people that have already committed to more time, they are the ones on the last 1-2 years of their commitment. Finally, they're also saying that promotion and DH selection is going to be 100% for the next year or so (that's not official). What does that mean? Anyone who wants to stay in, can, and they'll get those bonuses.

All in all, you're still looking at a shortage of pilots. And, with those that you'd want to keep getting out, you're getting a worse product and the mid to senior level of aviators that are supposed to be flying down range dropping bombs on bad guys.

So, anyone have an idea how to fix it? Is there a solution until the airlines stop hiring?

The Navy and Air Force are where the Army was 10 years ago. And that isn't good.

Unfortunately, so long as DoD doesn't offer an alternative to not enough dwell time, I don't know what can be done. Shit, what hope is there if the most glamorous job in the armed forces is having a hard time recruiting?

They've been asking a small number of people to make enormous sacrifices for the better part of 20 years now. When will it end? Going to war is bad enough, but now they're essentially demanding that these men and women not start families because many, many spouses simply can't take the separation. That is just a bridge too far for many.

They need to start throwing real money at people, $35K is meh, try $65K, or create a new pilot recruiting program at the college level that doubles the number of qualified candidates.

Oddly enough, I went to AOBC (armor) with a Marine, who later switched to the Air Force and is now a F-15 driver. My sister is a Marine pilot and her resignation letter was rejected. They made a deal so she is still in, but has been on "sabbatical" to go to Med School.
 
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My wife's nephew Godson is an Air Force colonel who just came off a wing command and was a lock to make general. However, he has two special needs kids and promotion to general would mean a year away from family. In addition his wife talked to wives of generals and most of them wished they had gotten out

So he had his name taken off the promotion list and will get out.

Used to be colonels would give their left nut for a star. The fact that even at that level officers are getting out is more evidence that military life is a tough sell in this economy and with changing priorities of people.
 
All in all, you're still looking at a shortage of pilots. And, with those that you'd want to keep getting out, you're getting a worse product and the mid to senior level of aviators that are supposed to be flying down range dropping bombs on bad guys.

So, anyone have an idea how to fix it? Is there a solution until the airlines stop hiring?

Well, there isn't any shortage of inducing new people to join the military as pilots, is there? It's a fantastic job for many college grads.

If not, it seems to me that part of the problem is that the value of military pilot training is very high, and makes them exceptionally marketable. So you have tons of people willing to become pilots, just not as many are willing to stay pilots. So to adjust that supply/demand a bit...how about lengthening the initial military obligation for pilots by a year or two? That wouldn't solve the problem, but it would mitigate it to some extent. And you could then put the money you've saved by lengthening their contracts into increasing the bonuses for more experienced pilots.

Otherwise, it just sounds like you're going to have to pay those guys a lot more.
 
@King Stannis do you have any good recommended reading for the Napoleonic wars? It's a period of time I'm EXTREMELY unfamiliar with and I want to know more about.
 
The Navy and Air Force are where the Army was 10 years ago. And that isn't good.

Unfortunately, so long as DoD doesn't offer an alternative to not enough dwell time, I don't know what can be done. Shit, what hope is there if the most glamorous job in the armed forces is having a hard time recruiting?

They've been asking a small number of people to make enormous sacrifices for the better part of 20 years now. When will it end? Going to war is bad enough, but now they're essentially demanding that these men and women not start families because many, many spouses simply can't take the separation. That is just a bridge too far for many.
You're absolutely right that the family time is one of the big issues. Accepting, generally, less pay and less time with family never plays well.

They need to start throwing real money at people, $35K is meh, try $65K, or create a new pilot recruiting program at the college level that doubles the number of qualified candidates.
Rumors run rampant, but apparently the Navy wanted to offer $60k/year, but by the time it got approved, it was $35k.

Oddly enough, I went to AOBC (armor) with a Marine, who later switched to the Air Force and is now a F-15 driver. My sister is a Marine pilot and her resignation letter was rejected. They made a deal so she is still in, but has been on "sabbatical" to go to Med School.
Interesting about your sister. She TacAir? Haven't heard any of the guys around here have that problem, yet. I can imagine it though. The Marines were having guys do five year initial sea tours, which is pretty insane.

Well, there isn't any shortage of inducing new people to join the military as pilots, is there? It's a fantastic job for many college grads.
I'm sure the Navy is trying to have more new pilots. The jet training squadrons' Instructor Pilots are flying three times a day, plus weekends, to try to get quotas met.

But, that only fixes the issue 10 years down the road. No new pilot is going to replace guys with 1,500-2,000 hours, some of them TOPGUN grads (and that could be discussion of its own, but they're likewise leaving at alarming rates), who have 10+ years in the military. If the saying, chiefs are the backbone of the Navy, then the mid tier Aviator is the backbone to Naval Aviation. They're the ones teaching the newer aviators, while also being the best tactically.

If not, it seems to me that part of the problem is that the value of military pilot training is very high, and makes them exceptionally marketable. So you have tons of people willing to become pilots, just not as many are willing to stay pilots. So to adjust that supply/demand a bit...how about lengthening the initial military obligation for pilots by a year or two? That wouldn't solve the problem, but it would mitigate it to some extent. And you could then put the money you've saved by lengthening their contracts into increasing the bonuses for more experienced pilots.

Otherwise, it just sounds like you're going to have to pay those guys a lot more.
Your last point is kind of intriguing. Right now, the service requirement is 8 years post winging, which generally takes around 2 years. Younger people generally don't think about the long term as much, so if they're willing to commit for around 10 years now, what is another, say, 2 years? I'm sure it becomes slightly more difficult to leave after 12 than 10 years (though I would have to look at hard data for years served for those leaving to see).
 

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