The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I'd still bet it's Dany that is Azor Ahai. I think people keep digging when the answer is obvious. The day the red star was in the sky she literally sat in a fire all night and dragons were born around her. It's her.

I think because it seems so obvious it won't be her. Remember, in the House of the Undying Rhaegar mentions that Aegon is the Prince that was Promised, and that his was the song of ice and fire. Well, Aegon is (probably) dead, and why would the son of a Targaryen and a Martell, or for that matter the daughter of two Targs (Dany) have the song of ice and fire? It makes no sense.

Jon, however, is more than likely the son of a Targaryen and a Stark (this isn't a spoiler...Jon's mother has not been revealed in the books as of yet). That sounds a lot more like ice and fire to me.

Spoiler

Plus, we got that scene at the end of dance where there is salt, smoke, and a dying star. And, unlike Dany, Jon actually (probably) dies, which means he can be (literally) reborn. I also think that the "waking dragons from stone" is metaphorical, and that Jon will find the truth about who he is in the crypts of Winterfell.

For what it's worth, I think Dany will end up doing more harm than good when she comes to Westeros. I think she'll end up almost as an antagonist before it's all said and done.

Spoiler

She and Aegon are basically destined to throw down, and a lot of people will die as a result. In fact, I think it would be perfectly ironic if she ends up destroying the Water Gardens in Dorne, as the first Danaerys was the one who built them, and Doran is desperately concerned with protecting the children in Dorne.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Totally agree with Jack Brickman on this.

Spoiler

I think Dany has good intentions, but I believe her story is ultimately a tragic one. Jon is Azor Ahai.

By the way, the biggest disservice the HBO adaptation has done to the story is totally removing all the prophecies and stuff. I know why some of it had to go, but all of it? Really? Does anyone watching the show even know the story of Azor Ahai and the War for the Dawn or anything like that? That stuff is all awesome and plays into what is going to happen in this story. Yet, nowhere to be seen 4 seasons into the show. Disappointing.

And the House of the Undying sucked.

 

[Rich]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Eh, I hate being one of those book purists. I knew most of the prophecy would have to be removed.

As for Azor Ahai, I'm sticking by my story. All of the prophecy relating to Dany doesn't not show that she'll be a tragic figure. Everything in the House of the Undying, the woman who keeps appearing out of no where telling her to pass beneath the shadow.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Eh, I hate being one of those book purists. I knew most of the prophecy would have to be removed.

As for Azor Ahai, I'm sticking by my story. All of the prophecy relating to Dany doesn't not show that she'll be a tragic figure. Everything in the House of the Undying, the woman who keeps appearing out of no where telling her to pass beneath the shadow.

It's just not GRRM esque for her to roll in and save the day. It's not happening.

As for book purist, I don't hide from the fact that I am one. I'll argue till blue in the face that the story the books tell is far superior. Doesn't make the adaptation any less great. Removing the prophecies sucks. I was disappointed.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Totally agree with Jack Brickman on this.

Spoiler

I think Dany has good intentions, but I believe her story is ultimately a tragic one. Jon is Azor Ahai.

By the way, the biggest disservice the HBO adaptation has done to the story is totally removing all the prophecies and stuff. I know why some of it had to go, but all of it? Really? Does anyone watching the show even know the story of Azor Ahai and the War for the Dawn or anything like that? That stuff is all awesome and plays into what is going to happen in this story. Yet, nowhere to be seen 4 seasons into the show. Disappointing.

And the House of the Undying sucked.

They've at least talked about Azor Ahai a few times on the show, and I imagine they will more next season when

Spoiler

Aemon meets Melisandre

. They pretty much have to if it's at all important to the story. And if it's not, Martin sure has wasted a hell of a lot of our time on it. They did talk a little about the War for the Dawn in season one. Nothing too in depth, but Old Nan told Bran that story about the first Long Night way back when.

To look at it another way, the show waited until now to really start getting into the story of the sack of King's Landing when Aerys was overthrown and murdered. They seem to hit the important backstory when it's necessary (as the story of Elia's death will be this season), which makes sense seeing as people have likely forgotten about some of the things they talked about in season one. I imagine they'll start hitting on all the Azor Ahai plot points next year and onward.

My personal favorite theory is that Dany will end up being Nissa Nissa. That would be a fantastic twist. I'd also love it if Ice ends up being reforged to become Lightbringer.

It's just not GRRM esque for her to roll in and save the day. It's not happening.

As for book purist, I don't hide from the fact that I am one. I'll argue till blue in the face that the story the books tell is far superior. Doesn't make the adaptation any less great. Removing the prophecies sucks. I was disappointed.

I doubt anyone who has both read and watched the series would disagree that the books are far superior. You just have to accept some compromises.

I agree about the House of the Undying though. They turned one of my favorite chapters in the books into a pile of shit.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

The story Old Nan told to Bran was like 20 seconds long and was just about the White Walkers and the Long Night. Didn't really mention much...even though it was cool/scary as fuck. :chuckles: You're right, I forgot Melisandre has mentioned Azor Ahai a few times in regards to Stannis. Don't think she actually called him Azor Ahai. Either way it's been very very quietly swept under the rug for the most part. I hope we see more.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

The story Old Nan told to Bran was like 20 seconds long and was just about the White Walkers and the Long Night. Didn't really mention much...even though it was cool/scary as fuck. :chuckles: You're right, I forgot Melisandre has mentioned Azor Ahai a few times in regards to Stannis. Don't think she actually called him Azor Ahai. Either way it's been very very quietly swept under the rug for the most part. I hope we see more.

I'm almost positive she has called him Azor Ahai, but I could be wrong.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

 

[theSTEREO.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

They've at least talked about Azor Ahai a few times on the show, and I imagine they will more next season when

Spoiler

Aemon meets Melisandre

. They pretty much have to if it's at all important to the story. And if it's not, Martin sure has wasted a hell of a lot of our time on it. They did talk a little about the War for the Dawn in season one. Nothing too in depth, but Old Nan told Bran that story about the first Long Night way back when.

To look at it another way, the show waited until now to really start getting into the story of the sack of King's Landing when Aerys was overthrown and murdered. They seem to hit the important backstory when it's necessary (as the story of Elia's death will be this season), which makes sense seeing as people have likely forgotten about some of the things they talked about in season one. I imagine they'll start hitting on all the Azor Ahai plot points next year and onward.

My personal favorite theory is that Dany will end up being Nissa Nissa. That would be a fantastic twist. I'd also love it if Ice ends up being reforged to become Lightbringer.



I doubt anyone who has both read and watched the series would disagree that the books are far superior. You just have to accept some compromises.

I agree about the House of the Undying though. They turned one of my favorite chapters in the books into a pile of shit.

I could totally buy into that. It would be a totally GRRM thing to do, especially the ice as lightbringer. What happened to Widows Wail by the way? I don't remember. Seems that

Spoiler

Oathkeeper will probably belong to Lady Stoneheart pretty soon

 

[Rich]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I think its still very up in the air as to which of the old stories are true. The Last Hero, the Prince that Was Promised, and Azor Ahai all seem to be about the same person, the but the details aren't all the same. Personally, if I had to pick at least one version that is somehow wrong, I'd pick Melisandre's.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I think its still very up in the air as to which of the old stories are true. The Last Hero, the Prince that Was Promised, and Azor Ahai all seem to be about the same person, the but the details aren't all the same. Personally, if I had to pick at least one version that is somehow wrong, I'd pick Melisandre's.

Totally agree that we have no idea which, if any, of the old stories will come to be true again in the new long winter. I just think that, as someone who loves to subvert the genre, it would be great if Martin made Dany the new Nissa Nissa.

Overall, though, I have no fucking clue where this story is going, which is part of what's so great about it.

Personally, I hope Euron ends up on the Iron Throne. He seems like a pretty cool dude. :chuckles:

 

[Rich]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Totally agree that we have no idea which, if any, of the old stories will come to be true again in the new long winter. I just think that, as someone who loves to subvert the genre, it would be great if Martin made Dany the new Nissa Nissa.

Overall, though, I have no fucking clue where this story is going, which is part of what's so great about it.

Personally, I hope Euron ends up on the Iron Throne. He seems like a pretty cool dude. :chuckles:

I honestly could see it being something like all of our favorite characters save the day, die in the battle, and Littlefinger takes the throne at the end of the books.

That said, I'm gonna read more about each of the three heroes, which all seem to be the same hero and most people assume are. I'm developing an interesting theory here that will probably be wrong, but oh well.

Basically, my thinking is this, if you look at Old Nan's story about the last hero and what he did, that sounds a lot like Bran. So I'm wondering if its possible that three heroes, while they may have been one person thousands of years ago, will now be represented by three different people. Dany as the Prince that was promised and Jon as Azor Ahai? I'm really only basing this on the fact that Old Nan's story seems to only fit Bran and will only fit Bran. He's going to be, it seems, the only person that seeks out the Children of the Forest to enlist their help.

EDIT: If you really wanna go down the rabbit hole, this is a website dedicated to pretty much everything winterfell after Theon takes. Digging very, very deep.

http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Contents.html

 

[CardiacCavs]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Somewhat in the same vein as that link to seeing what is going on in Winterfell in books 4 and 5, these series of essays are pretty interesting. They are called the Grand Northern Conspiracy and basically outlines that nearly every Northern house is actively plotting against the Boltons just beneath the surface. I read when I was bored at work one day. If you're looking to get some pro-stark feels then maybe check it out. Obviously full of spoilers.

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 1 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/52823783644/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-1

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 2 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/52826780976/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-2

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 3 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/52830849020/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-3

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 4 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/52994750418/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-4

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 5 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/53166581598/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-5

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 6 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/53766129123/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-6

The Grand Northern Conspiracy Pt. 7 http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/55165715349/the-grand-northern-conspiracy-part-7

I hope those links work. I'm at work right now and we can't access anything from tumblr so I just posted the URLs.

 

[Lionheart]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

*Non-book reader*

I come here to read up on the discussion about the latest episode and, as usual, have fun doing it as checking this thread lets me confirm my understanding of the story. I really do appreciate the guys who use the spoiler tags so as not to suspend the wonder provided by the show. (As I was typing this, I read Rich's last post lol)

Question: I get the usual magical/supernatural stuff like the warlocks, dragons, wargs and wights. But the Lord of Light really intrigues me. So far Melisandre and Thoros (sp?) have shown immense power in the show, will all of these be explained? I ask because the show so far hasn't indicated about the origins of their power, it instead portrays it as a higher power that is just 'there'. Their abilities are just so mysterious and powerful to the point of being vague.

Anyway, like I said, I come here for the discussion about the latest episode so if I may politely request for us to be more stringent with spoiler tags whether they contain theories - because they still involve advanced book knowledge - or not? I know it is the GoT thread and I don't mean to be a pain in the ass. :chuckles:

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread