The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[Shakalu M.D.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Do we think Tywin is physically imposing? Maybe years ago but I doubt many fear him in a fight. His power is solidified much the same way I think Littlefinger's would be. Intelligence, manipulation, and fear. Of course he isn't low born either, I'm just saying I don't think physical prowess is necessarily a pre-requisite. Think people fear Tommen?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Do we think Tywin is physically imposing? Maybe years ago but I doubt many fear him in a fight. His power is solidified much the same way I think Littlefinger's would be. Intelligence, manipulation, and fear. Of course he isn't low born either, I'm just saying I don't think physical prowess is necessarily a pre-requisite. Think people fear Tommen?

In the books Tywin is described as somewhat imposing. He's older, but he's described as strong, and I have no doubt he was a fine fighter when he was younger. The main difference, though, is his birth. He commands loyalty in a way Littlefinger never could because he's a Lannister, and that name means something in the Seven Kingdoms. The name Baelish? Not so much.

Tywin has dozens of bannermen willing to flock to his cause. Littlefinger does not. In fact, most of his current Vale bannermen are actively opposing him, and he had to resort to manipulating them simply to buy himself some time.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Tywin was considered to be one of the best generals in the Seven Kingdoms as well.

LF operating under the radar gives him some advantage, but it also means nobody thinks much of him and he has no positive reputation to induce loyalty from others. Who wants to bend the knee to a nobody?

 

[Rich]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I honestly don't know. I just think his ceiling is Hand of the King.

The main issue I have with him as King is...who loves or fears him enough to put him on the Iron Throne? He can buy people off, but there's not enough gold in the world for most of the lords to allow him to become their King given his low birth. Similarly, people seem to like him well enough, but none of them really love him, and you can't win a crown without people willing to fight and die for you. He's also not physically powerful enough to inspire fear, which is another way to get people to die for you.

Robert won his throne because he was a warrior and because his friends loved him. The lords of the North were willing to fight and die for the Ned because they loved him and the Starks in general. Tywin kept control of the Westerlands because they were terrified of his wrath. Littlefinger has none of that. He's neither loved nor feared, which ironically has been what has allowed him to operate so under the radar for so long. I just can't see anyone willing to fight and die to sit his ass on the throne, or willing to fight and die to keep him there.

Even in the Vale, Littlefinger has resigned himself to the fact that he will never be loved by the lords there, which is why he conspires to have

Spoiler

Sansa marry Harry the Heir

so that he can manipulate them to do what he wants them to. I don't see him ever being able to manipulate his way onto the throne, though.

The Tyrells love him.

Robin Arryn is easily manipulated by him and will do what he asks.

And remember, he's no longer really a low house. He's Lord of Harrenhal. He has the title now.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

The Tyrells love him.

Robin Arryn is easily manipulated by him and will do what he asks.

And remember, he's no longer really a low house. He's Lord of Harrenhal. He has the title now.

Do the Tyrells love him? I've never seen any indication of that. I'd imagine he's little more than a tool to the Queen of Thornes, much as Littlefinger sees the Tyrells as a tool for creating discord within the Lannister family. I certainly can't see the Tyrells fighting to put him on the throne regardless.

Robin (Robert in the books I suppose) Arryn could be easily manipulated by anyone. He's a stupid kid. Sansa is half-retarded and she manipulates him all the time.

I realize he's now the Lord of Harrenhal, but let's not pretend that the other houses have suddenly let that fact overshadow his low birth. There's a reason the lords of the Vale oppose him, and it's because they don't consider someone born so far beneath them to be worthy of ruling them.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Jack, while I agree with you, I think that last bit hasn't been even hinted at on the show.

You can join me and Ser Ilyn now.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Sansa is gonna be a player eventually. I guarantee that. In some aspect, anyways.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Jack, while I agree with you, I think that last bit hasn't been even hinted at on the show.

You can join me and Ser Ilyn now.

He's the Lord of the Vale now on the show, and I didn't say how they oppose him or what the result is. You guys are too touchy about minor, inconsequential spoilers. You revealed that

Spoiler

Tywin died

. That's a real spoiler. :chuckles:

Sansa is gonna be a player eventually. I guarantee that. In some aspect, anyways.

That's basically a given. But at the point we're currently at in the books she's still pretty dumb.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Sansa is gonna be a player eventually. I guarantee that. In some aspect, anyways.

If not, her fan club will spontaneously combust. Or at least self-immolate.

Btw, that bit in the ep where Tywin said he financed Robert's Rebellion.... I don't remember that from the books. Anyone else?

 

[Adam]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

If not, her fan club will spontaneously combust. Or at least self-immolate.

Btw, that bit in the ep where Tywin said he financed Robert's Rebellion.... I don't remember that from the books. Anyone else?

I'm not sure..but i kind of took it for granted, lannister gold and spears were needed in the trident. Roberts victory was secured by his ability to use both lannister forces and the north. IIRC.

I cant help but feel at the end of it all it will boil down to the stark kids all playing pivotal roles in the end game, hopefully aware of each other existence. I bet sansa has her role to play

 

[CardiacCavs]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

The Tyrells love him.

Robin Arryn is easily manipulated by him and will do what he asks.

And remember, he's no longer really a low house. He's Lord of Harrenhal. He has the title now.

I think it is only a matter of time until

Spoiler

Robin/Robert Arryn is disposed of by Littlefinger. He is sickly in the books and he keeps giving him milk of the poppy. I think there is actually a theory that LF is slowly killing Robin by giving him various medicines/drugs from the Maester at the Eyrie. It would be so easy for it to look natural.

Yeah he is technically Lord of Harrenhal but he has never been there, and most likely never will. I suppose it would be a good way of making some money for him, but it seems like getting money was never a problem for LF. It pretty much is only a title. That is his position in the Vale too because

Spoiler

he may technically be considered the Lord regent of the Vale until Robert comes of age but that is only a title with little support backing it. He can't call his banners because his bannermen do not even want him to be their leader. IIRC some of them want to outright oust him from power during that meeting in AFFC.

If not, her fan club will spontaneously combust. Or at least self-immolate.

Btw, that bit in the ep where Tywin said he financed Robert's Rebellion.... I don't remember that from the books. Anyone else?

I think he said he financed Robert's reign, not rebellion which would jive with what Ned discovere during S1 (the crown was in debt to Tywin because of Robert's extravagent tourneys, etc.) The Lannisters played no part in the rebellion until they betrayed Aerys by sacking King's Landing, which occured after Rhaegar's defeat at the Trident. The rebellion was pretty much over at that point. Tywin wanted to ingratiate himself with Robert because he saw which way the winds were blowing. That is why he presented Robert with the bodies of the Targ children showing definitevely that the Lannisters had forsaken the Targs once and for all.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Btw, that bit in the ep where Tywin said he financed Robert's Rebellion.... I don't remember that from the books. Anyone else?

They may have been referring to the Greyjoy Rebellion, as that was technically the last war the Seven Kingdoms went through prior to the events on the show.

I doubt he would be referring to Robert's Rebellion, as it's pretty common knowledge that the Lannisters sat that one out until the very end.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I'm not sure..but i kind of took it for granted, lannister gold and spears were needed in the trident. Roberts victory was secured by his ability to use both lannister forces and the north. IIRC.

I cant help but feel at the end of it all it will boil down to the stark kids all playing pivotal roles in the end game, hopefully aware of each other existence. I bet sansa has her role to play

I thought Tywin sat out the rebellion until the siege of King's Landing where he came in under pretense of protecting the city but instead sacked it and took it over for Robert.

Anyways, regarding Sansa, I seem to remember her slowly getting smarter and ... not cunning, but...wiser, in her chapters as time went on. Maybe I'm not remembering right.

Spoiler

Obviously referring to the latest 2 books

 

[supergoat52]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Spoiler

He's the Lord of the Vale now on the show, and I didn't say how they oppose him or what the result is.

You guys are too touchy about minor, inconsequential spoilers.

Perhaps, but while i was reading the books i avoided this thread completely because of posts like yours. Anyone who is intelligent and follows the story can put stuff together when you say stuff like that. Just because you don't say "Snape kills Dumbledore" doesn't mean you are avoiding spoilers. Things like "I didn't say who" or "I didn't say how" are not sufficient for anyone who thinks about your statements.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

They may have been referring to the Greyjoy Rebellion, as that was technically the last war the Seven Kingdoms went through prior to the events on the show.

I doubt he would be referring to Robert's Rebellion, as it's pretty common knowledge that the Lannisters sat that one out until the very end.

I can't recall the exact line from the show, but I recall it being pretty clear that he was referring to the Rebellion, which is why it stuck with me. I think perhaps that the writers were trying to show that Tywin was scheming as well. But it struck me as inconsistent with the books.

ETA: Greyjoy's Rebellion came after Aerys was dead and Robert King. The cost of suppressing it would have been a debt of the crown, not paid directly by the Lannisters.