The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Meh, she loves Arya. I don't remember what she thought about Jon Snow. I thought she was fine with him? I know Catelyn does not like him for obvious reasons.

I like Sansa. You saw a lot of her development in ACOK which you just finished. Lots of characters grow on you over time, some of them because we finally get to look inside their minds and see their feelings, motivations, etc...and others just because they develop and change.

GRRM is a fantastic writer. Hurry up and read ASOS so I can talk about it.

She treated Jon like Catelyn.. Not family just a bastard. She's just a little bird. Lol.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I don't remember that at all. I need to reread the series.

On another note (ACOK spoiler, you can read):

Was the dialogue scene between Jaime and Catelyn at the end of ACOK not just, absolutely awesome? :chuckles: Goddam I loved that part. "Brienne, bring me your sword."

 

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I don't remember that at all. I need to reread the series.

On another note (ACOK spoiler, you can read):

Was the dialogue scene between Jaime and Catelyn at the end of ACOK not just, absolutely awesome? :chuckles: Goddam I loved that part. "Brienne, bring me your sword."

Yeah, it was good. Catelyn reminds me of Kahlan from Goodkind's stuff. She's powerful and puts duty above everything. She'd give up the world to protect her kids but she knows she can't and won't. Idk, I like reading her too. From scanning through aSoS I assume Cat didn't do to Jaime as we were lead to believe. I hope she gets reunited with her long lost children. She's been through too much. Damn. I'm gonna start reading aSoS here in a few minutes. After your next reply. Lol. I'll keep you updated on my feelings towards Jaime and Sansa. Oh, BTW, fuck Joffrey. He's such a little bitch and the character from the show portrays him perfectly. I want to read about Robb or Cat castrating him for what he did to Ned and Sansa.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Yeah, it was good. Catelyn reminds me of Kahlan from Goodkind's stuff. She's powerful and puts duty above everything. She'd give up the world to protect her kids but she knows she can't and won't. Idk, I like reading her too. From scanning through aSoS I assume Cat didn't do to Jaime as we were lead to believe. I hope she gets reunited with her long lost children. She's been through too much. Damn. I'm gonna start reading aSoS here in a few minutes. After your next reply. Lol. I'll keep you updated on my feelings towards Jaime and Sansa. Oh, BTW, fuck Joffrey. He's such a little bitch and the character from the show portrays him perfectly. I want to read about Robb or Cat castrating him for what he did to Ned and Sansa.

...I seriously can't say anything to this post without spoiling some amazing shit. Yeah, start reading ASOS.

Everyone who has read ASOS, read my spoiler text:

I just don't have the heart... I just... I just don't have the heart to tell MattyFos the truth.

 

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

You may be a Lannister, but you don't mess with the Weasle and the King in the North.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I do love the Starks too. I just think it's so cliche to be all pro Stark. The Lannisters have some of the best characters. Jaime and Tyrion are just a great brother duo, and Tywin is badass.

 

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I like Tyrion. Joffrey is a twat. Cersei is a brother/cousin fucker. Jaime, I don't know much about him except the sister fucking and king slaying. Tywin has had some decent moments. But not a lot of development out of him yet. There's some issues with the Lannister's.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Cersei is responsible for a lot worse things than fucking her family members, that's for sure. Joffrey is just as bad as her, if not worse. They are clearly meant to be villains. At the end of the day the rest of the Lannisters are just fighting Cersei's war, basically trying to ensure their house comes out on top and doesn't topple into nothing like the Targaryens did. Can't blame them for that.

Tyrion, Jaime, and Tywin get a lot of screen time in ASOS so just read.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

As to the part with Petyr, I'm not sure. But my guess would be an added scene where Catelyn questions Petyr's intentions.

I believe Martin tries to use this show to flesh out and compliment the books a little more. Now that he's so far into the story, he can look back and add a few things to compliment some of the story arcs which are coming in the final two books. The frequent conversations between Petyr and Varys did a lot of that in the first season of the show. I'm now more convinced than ever that this series will culminate in 3 major head-to-head clashes, and while there's a lot of gray in the plot so far, I think in the end it will become pretty black and white, or black and also black as the case may be.

As for the Tower of Joy, I think it's because GRRM's most important surprise is buried in there, and it would be far too easy for people to connect the dots if they saw it on screen. It's easier to hide hints in two paragraphs in an 800 page book, but much harder if you put it on screen. Still, they'll have to flesh out Lyanna more somehow at some point.

Lots of spoilers in regards to book 5:

I think, in the end, Jon will be the rightful heir to the Iron Throne as well as the King of the North. That is, if you don't believe the Blackfyre's claim of the throne. I think he is also the Prince who was Promised, and Azor Ahai reborn. Stannis is just a fake.

One of the more intriguing theories is that Aegon is not really a Targaryen, but actually the last male Blackfyre. The Golden Company intends to win him the throne, thereby fulfilling their 700 year-old vow of putting a Blackfyre in the Iron Throne. Aegon would actually be Illyrio's son, and Illyrio's widow carried the Blackfyre line. Varys and Illyrio aren't actually working to put a Targaryen back on the throne, they intend to put a Blackfyre there. It would also explain Danny's prophecy to beware of the mummer's dragon.

As far as Stannis goes, I think he's still alive, and is now under the protection of the Manderlys, who intend to help him defeat the Bolton's. Though the Manderlys have made it clear they support the Starks above all else, so it would be interesting to see what terms Stannis would agree to in exchange for Lord Manderly's protection.

Yo Talm, I was reading this link, since you got me interested with that Blackfyre theory.

*SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY*

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/p844r/adwd_spoilers_and_speculation_septon_meribald/

Hot damn! Now that is some nasty foreshadowing and symbolism by Martin if that's true, and props to the guys who figured that out...again, if it's true. I actually really, really want this to be what Martin is doing.

Spoiler text:

I've constantly wondered what the hell Varys, Illyrio, and all them are trying to do. If they turn out to be Blackfyre loyalists, that will be a very satisfying revelation and one that I can get onboard with.

 

[caf]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

...I seriously can't say anything to this post without spoiling some amazing shit. Yeah, start reading ASOS.

Everyone who has read ASOS, read my spoiler text:

I just don't have the heart... I just... I just don't have the heart to tell MattyFos the truth.

I'll tell him then:

Albus Dumbledore is gay.

 

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Tyrion speaks well of Jamie, way better than he speaks of Cersei.. I think Tyrion is one of the more transparent characters so I'd imagine Jaime isn't as bad as he's portrayed.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Sort of, maybe, kind of; it's a lot more than that.

I do find it funny how much people hate him at the end of A Game of Thrones, when in the end all he's done is act kind of arrogant, fuck his sister, and ... well, okay, so he pushed Bran out the window. :chuckles: But it's not like he had a choice. It was either his entire family, or Brandon Stark. He chose Brandon Stark. *shrug* He certainly isn't even depicted as the evil grumkin that all the people act like he is after watching Season 1 or, say, reading AGOT/ACOK.

The show does go out of its way to kind of villainize him a tad more than the book does, if I recall correctly. Also the fact that him and Ned Stark engage in a sword duel (not in the book, that scene is a bit different in the text) helped TV viewers go, "Ooooh! He's the main bad guy of the story!" when in reality if you think about it all he was doing is retaliating for the false kidnapping of Tyrion.

 

[MattyFos.]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

Sort of, maybe, kind of; it's a lot more than that.

I do find it funny how much people hate him at the end of A Game of Thrones, when in the end all he's done is act kind of arrogant, fuck his sister, and ... well, okay, so he pushed Bran out the window. :chuckles: But it's not like he had a choice. It was either his entire family, or Brandon Stark. He chose Brandon Stark. *shrug* He certainly isn't even depicted as the evil grumkin that all the people act like he is after watching Season 1 or, say, reading AGOT/ACOK.

The show does go out of its way to kind of villainize him a tad more than the book does, if I recall correctly. Also the fact that him and Ned Stark engage in a sword duel (not in the book, that scene is a bit different in the text) helped TV viewers go, "Ooooh! He's the main bad guy of the story!" when in reality if you think about it all he was doing is retaliating for the false kidnapping of Tyrion.

I don't see him as a big villian just a low character person. He was sworn to protect the king and killed him. He sleeps with his sister. He pushed Bran to his supposed death. Those are moves of a coward. Though we are lead to believe he is the opposite of a coward. It's hard to say he's anything but a low morals coward when those are the only things we know about him after two books. His two biggest fans are Cersei and Tyrion... Cersei who has a shady character to say the least and Tyrion who seems to be the only honorable person in Kings Landing since Ned lost his head. So my views on Jaime are as polarizing as his two siblings.

 

[Chris]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

I don't see him as a big villian just a low character person. He was sworn to protect the king and killed him. He sleeps with his sister. He pushed Bran to his supposed death. Those are moves of a coward. Though we are lead to believe he is the opposite of a coward. It's hard to say he's anything but a low morals coward when those are the only things we know about him after two books. His two biggest fans are Cersei and Tyrion... Cersei who has a shady character to say the least and Tyrion who seems to be the only honorable person in Kings Landing since Ned lost his head. So my views on Jaime are as polarizing as his two siblings.

I'd say you're definitely supposed to view him negatively, and your view of him is very consistent with where you are in the series. To you, he is an oathbreaker, a child murderer (even though Bran lived, he meant to kill Bran, obviously), and involved in an incestuous relationship with his sister. Pretty negative, all of those things. Your opinion may change, like mine did. IT MAY NOT. Let me stress that. A lot of people that have read farther than you still hate Jaime Lannister. It's not a spoiler to say you get Jaime POVs because you already flipped through ASOS and saw them, so once you get inside his mind a bit you may change your mind on a few things. Again, you may not. I'd really rather not skew your opinion of him at all, I'd rather you make your own decisions and judge him by your own standards in the end, so I have to force myself to stop talking about this. :chuckles:

edit: I'm not sure I agree with the word coward. Low character, definitely...not sure if Jaime was ever depicted as cowardly, though. You could argue he broke his oath to Aerys, killing the king he swore to protect, because he was afraid to die protecting him, I guess.

 

[theshowstoppah]

Re: The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread

This thread is starting to become really awesome. If there is one thing I have learned from this series, it is that you truly know nothing. This isn't the same as a Harry Potter book where you know he's gonna conquer Voldemort in the end (sorry if I spoiled that for anyone )... I mean we have to white out text for people in the book who are still alive because that means they aren't dead. How many pieces of entertainment in popular culture do you know that are as unpredictable and surprising as Game of Thrones?

Even as I am saying this, who knows if Jamie, Davos and Tyrion will still be my favorites after one more book? Things are so unpredictable and when you learn more about the past history of the characters as the story proceeds it helps to change your mind. Although Jamie has a lot of bad character traits, you find out more about him later and you might just change your mind. And find me someone who doesn't like the Onion Knight and I will find you a liar. "Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty when all I could think of were my rights." He's basically the Robin Hood character of GOT.