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The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Chris, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    Yep, having them killed wasn't out of line. But she had to have them burned and tortured. That's an act of a tyrant.

    She was losing grip on her claim at that point (they were losing the war up until that battle) and reverted to tyrannical measures to assure she doesn't lose grip.

    I don't think Dany is setting out to be a tyrant but is turning into one. When shit hits the fan she reverts to tyrannical behavior.

    She will do anything to get her claim on the throne.
     
  2. Chris

    Chris Buddy boy, I want you to get excited here!

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    Guess I’m alone. Didn’t cry any tears for Olly, but I’m pretty good about being able to put myself in other peoples’ shoes and... after what Olly had seen of the wildlings, is it really that incomprehensible that he acted the way he did?

    As for the Tarlys, definitely felt bad for Dickon. But he did have a choice, I guess. Not like we knew him well enough to care THAT much but still.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 12:49 AM
  3. King Stannis

    King Stannis The One True King

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Buddy boy, I want you to get excited here!

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    Also, we had this exact debate 2 years ago about Dany burning the Tarlys. I do think their death was pretty quick but still find executing people by fire to be an omen of poor morality in Westeros.

    I doubt Dany goes ‘mad queen’ but I think it’s silly to think there won’t be some sort of conflict there. Her lust for power is apparent.
     
  5. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    Not sure how that will be Tyrion's fault. It was all Jon's idea.

    But yeah, I find it really ridiculous he'd actually trust her. I mean, this is Cersei, come on. She's not going to lay down ever.

    As for Tyrion's failures. Well what can I say.

     
  6. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    Appears there's going to be some conflict with Sam. Sam himself certainly thinks her actions were tyrannical.

    Tyrion himself was worried about her becoming too tyrannical.

    It's hard to say she will for sure, because the show isn't always so predictable. And characters can redeem themselves. I don't believe she's out to hurt people at will like Cersei. But she definitely is pretty determine to get on that throne, and will cross the line and maybe then some to get there.. Hard to say for sure where her limits lie. I'm not going to Cersei territory.

    But right now, she's definitely coming towards a crossing point where others are starting to 'question' her fit to rule.

    Jon being the true heir is going to come to some conclusion..

    He says he doesn't want to rule. But what if Jon then starts questioning her fit for rule? We all know he's going to always do what's best for the people.

    If there ends up being some serious fallout between Sam and Dany, well shit can get really interesting.
     
  7. Stark

    Stark King in the North

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    Eh, I don't blame Olly a ton either. He's got a punchable face for sure, and his little charge at Tormund and co. when Edd brought back the Wildlings to defend Jon's corpse was downright pathetic.

    I understand everything he did though, even betraying Jon. Wildlings butchered his parents right in front of him and then ate them. Hell I'm pretty sure Ygritte is the one that sniped his dad, and then he gets her back in the Battle for Castle Black. Nothing wrong with that.

    He, like Thorne and the other mutineers had plenty of reason to hate the Wildings, and Jon brought them into their home and was planning on giving out their lands.

    I don't like Olly, I thought he was annoying, and watching him shoot Ygritte, stab Jon, and give him that last stare of defiance was annoying because we're all on Jon's side, but he wasn't unjustified in anything he did in my opinion.



    Go to about the 2:40 mark. The entirety of Castle Black had surrendered and this little twat thinks he's going to take down a bunch of wildlings. What a moron.
     
  8. Hurl Bruce

    Hurl Bruce Sexual Tyrannosaurus

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    I saw this picture and my mind went right to those birds and how they looked like the dragons with the one shooting flames at Notre Dame.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Chris

    Chris Buddy boy, I want you to get excited here!

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    I just... had zero anger towards Olly. At all. And I love Jon. Didn’t even care that he killed Ygritte. Like you said. Totally justified.

    I try to look at it through the lense of if I was witness to these actual scenarios and not just as some guy watching a TV show and picking what characters I think are cool. Because let’s be honest. We’d all probably be repulsed by many of these people if this was real life.
     
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  10. King Stannis

    King Stannis The One True King

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    Can you imagine how just about everyone smells?

    Worse than a platoon after a rotation at NTC.
     
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  11. godfather

    godfather Hall-of-Famer

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    My girlfriend liked Cersei. She likes the actress that plays her so much. She knows she's a bitch, but would make small arguments for her. Funny how ruthless and heartless some of these characters are and they're liked and argued for.

    But no, she's truly just a bitch.

    I told her if Jaime got in the way of her lust for power. She'd have him killed.

    Cersei is the greatest villain on the show. So I get why people are drawn to her. She makes the show fun, and its fun to hate her. Of all the villains on the show, there are many. She's hands down the best.
     
  12. Stark

    Stark King in the North

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    Only justified thing I think Cersei has ever done was kill Ellaria and her daughter in 703 last season. Oberyn lost a completely legitimate trial by combat because he got cocky, and because Doran wouldn't take action to avenge his brother who died... in a completely legitimate way that is recognized as just throughout the Seven Kingdoms, she staged a coup and killed Myrcella in response. That was bullshit, and literally was the only time I could ever think of that I was sitting there and rooting for Cersei.
     
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  13. King Stannis

    King Stannis The One True King

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    The whole Dorne thing after Oberyn died was a monumental waste of time with no real payoff. One sea battle and poof. Dorne is back to being out of the show.

    But yeah, Ellaria was irrationally stupid.

    I mean they had fucking Dr. Bashir as Doran and they did nothing to flesh out what his plans were, or creating a sense of loss when he and his son were killed.
     
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  14. The Human Q-Tip

    The Human Q-Tip I want to be called "Loretta"

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    Aren't those two different wars, though?

    Robert's Rebellion was a civil war, and so was the war The War of the Five Kings. The treason argument would apply there, although even then, the conflicting oaths to a King and the Lord of a Great House in rebellion put lesser lords like Tarly in a bind that was pretty universally recognized. "Treason" generally was reserved for Lords of a Great House. The War of the Five Kings, being a true civil war, did create ambiguous situations, although even Stannis recognized that and didn't execute everyone who failed to bend the knee.

    But Danaerys invasion was not a civil war -- it was an invasion. Her family had been deposed for 15 years, and every single lord in Westeros owed fealty to the guy who beat her father in the war, and had owed fealty to that crown for those 15 years. There had been no ongoing Targaeryen resistance during all that time. In her battle against Tarly, not a single soldier fighting for her was even from the same continent.

    Frankly, I thought her argument that Jon had a moral obligation to submit to her because of oaths made to her father was weak. She told Jon that she was the "rightful" Queen, yet the Kings in the North had ruled for nearly 8000 years, on their own, before the Targaeryen invasion. And the Targaeryen invasion wasn't based on any kind of legal claim the Targaeryens had to Westeros -- they just took it because they could. I was hoping Jon would say something like "The Tagaeryen claim existed only because of conquest, and when Robert and my father beat your father, that crown was taken back by that same right of conquest." Robert was just as legitimate as was Aegon the Conqueror.

    Anyway, this all kind of especially sucked for Tarly. Though a douche, he was loyal to Danaery's father right to the end, and was one of his best generals. So when the Targaeryens were absent from Westeros for 15 years, and he'd taken oaths to multiple sovereigns in the meantime...treason is a massive stretch.

    Agreed. And the parallels between roasting Rickard and Brandon Stark in their armor, and roasting the Tarlys, are rather...Stark.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 9:11 AM
  15. The Human Q-Tip

    The Human Q-Tip I want to be called "Loretta"

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    I really had a problem with the fall of Highgarden. "Wealthiest House + breadbasket of Westeros" can't equate to "armies that don't know how to fight." Because if they didn't know how to fight, they'd never have been able to hold such wealthy lands at all. Completely inconsistent with GRRM's own portrayal of the House as having the largest army in Westeros. It clearly was a liberty taken by the showrunners to wrap up the Tyrell storylines quickly, but I thought it was weak as fuck.

    Not even a damn siege -- the castle somehow just fell in a single day.
     
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