• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

The Ongoing Attendance Problem

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

What Is the Biggest Reason for Attendance Being So Poor?

  • Larry Dolan Doesn't Spend Enough Money

    Votes: 32 27.4%
  • Lack of On-Field Success

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Lack of a Marketable Superstar

    Votes: 12 10.3%
  • Cleveland Cannot Support Three Professional Sports Teams

    Votes: 9 7.7%
  • The Economy

    Votes: 8 6.8%

  • Total voters
    117
Rays, Phillies (5 years in a row), Rangers, Tigers will this year....want me to go on? Small market teams have no excuse to not make the playoffs 2 years in a row. It just has to be ran correctly. Teams like us and the Pirates, Royals and Orioles are ran like shit.

Yes. I do want you to go on. You mentioned one more large market team (Rangers) and then put the Tigers in the playoffs even though they haven't made it.

And Tampa Bay is everyone's favorite franchise these days - but they sucked for 10 years before building up a system that was good enough to compete. From what I've heard here, if a team sucks for ten years, fans don't have to support them anymore - so why are they a good example of a successful franchise?
 
Yes. I do want you to go on. You mentioned one more large market team (Rangers) and then put the Tigers in the playoffs even though they haven't made it.

And Tampa Bay is everyone's favorite franchise these days - but they sucked for 10 years before building up a system that was good enough to compete. From what I've heard here, if a team sucks for ten years, fans don't have to support them anymore - so why are they a good example of a successful franchise?

Because Tampa sucked for 10 years and then built success. We sucked for 10 years, and then sucked for another 10 years.
 
Yes. I do want you to go on. You mentioned one more large market team (Rangers) and then put the Tigers in the playoffs even though they haven't made it.

And Tampa Bay is everyone's favorite franchise these days - but they sucked for 10 years before building up a system that was good enough to compete. From what I've heard here, if a team sucks for ten years, fans don't have to support them anymore - so why are they a good example of a successful franchise?

Rangers aren't a large market compared to the Yankees and Redsox. But to go on... The Angels: (little brother in LA before Albert) made the playoffs 07-09, and 2005-2004. Cardinals: 2006-2004, 2002-2000. Twins: 2010-2009, 2006 and 2004-2002. Braves: 2003-2005. Giants: 2002-2003, Diamondbacks: 1999-2002, Padres: 2005-2006....those are all small to mid market teams.
 
Rangers aren't a large market compared to the Yankees and Redsox. But to go on... The Angels: (little brother in LA before Albert) made the playoffs 07-09, and 2005-2004. Cardinals: 2006-2004 2002-2000. Twins: 2010-2009, 2006 and 2004-2002. Braves: 2003-2005. Giants: 2002-2003, Diamondbacks: 1999-2002, Padres: 2005-2006....those are all small to mid market teams.

Yeah, Cleveland is practically the same size as Los Angeles, Dallas and Atlanta.

Those are top-10 media markets.

I come back to this chart. The Indians had a better winning % than 16 teams over a 10 year span. And a payroll higher than 11 of them.

We can sit here and bitch about this team - but the fact that they are consistently in the bottom 5 in attendance doesn't match-up to their performance on the field. They aren't a bottom 5 team.

win_percent.jpg
 
And Tampa Bay is everyone's favorite franchise these days - but they sucked for 10 years before building up a system that was good enough to compete. From what I've heard here, if a team sucks for ten years, fans don't have to support them anymore

Not only do they not have to support them. They should be OBLIGATED not to. What better way to tell the front office fuck you than to stop supporting a team when they suck horribly for an extended period of time? 2-3 years...yeah sure, that happens and freaking out over it is somewhat pointless. But 10 years with one exception is unacceptable. I'd be embarrassed to spend money on a team that pulls that shit on their fans.

I would like to see people stop complaining about payroll. Payroll isn't that bad at all. I don't get the complaints about the Dolans. It's the horrible drafting and the embarrassing returns from trading their consecutive Cy Young winners. Predicting the Pronk and Grady injuries was impossible as far as I know, so complaining about those contracts is pretty senseless.

Casey Blake return was terrific, but still doesn't make up for just absolutely wasting the hell out of assets like Lee and CC. The drafting and those two trades are a huge reason the Indians have done nothing the last few years, while Cliff Lee and CC have contended for other teams ever since.
 
Last edited:
Not only do they not have to do. They should be OBLIGATED to. What better way to tell the front office fuck you than to stop supporting a team when they suck horribly for an extended period of time? 2-3 years...yeah sure, that happens and freaking out over it is somewhat pointless. But 10 years with one exception is unacceptable. I'd be embarrassed to spend money on a team that pulls that shit on their fans.

The part you cut out of my post was that the Indians have a better winning percentage than over HALF THE LEAGUE over the last 10 years.

'Sucking horribly' means the team has been way under .500 and miserable for ten years. The Tribe had two 90+ win seasons, and three 80+ win seasons over ten years. Another was at 78.

They've been mediocre. Their attendance hasn't. It has been sucking horribly.
 
Rays, Phillies (5 years in a row), Rangers, Tigers will this year....want me to go on? Small market teams have no excuse to not make the playoffs 2 years in a row. It just has to be ran correctly. Teams like us and the Pirates, Royals and Orioles are ran like shit.


Total playoff appearances since 2000.

Looks like there are a lot of other clubs that are "run like shit" by your standards...
I am including teams with 3 appearances (since the Tribe were on the brink of the playoffs in 2005 with 93 wins). Not too mention the Tribe has won 90 games or more four times since 2000 ... I would hardly consider this organization as one that is run like shit...

  1. New York 11
  2. St Louis 8
  3. Atlanta 7
  4. Minnesota 6
  5. Boston 6
  6. Anaheim 6
  7. Philly 5
  8. Oakland 5
  9. LA 4
  10. Arizona 4
    [*]Tampa Bay 3
    [*]San Fran 3
    [*]Houston 3
    [*]Chicago 3
    [*]Chi Cubs 3
    [*]Texas 2
    [*]Seattle 2
    [*]San Diego 2
    [*]NY Mets 2
    [*]Milwaukee 2
    [*]Detroit 2
    [*]Colorado 2
    [*]Cleveland 2
    [*]Miami/Florida 1
    [*]Cinci 1
    [*]Washington 0
    [*]Toronto 0
    [*]Pitt 0
    [*]Kansas City 0
    [*]Baltimore 0


(I had it sorted, oh well I give up... It is 5:!5... Time to get the hell out of my office...)
 
Not only do they not have to support them. They should be OBLIGATED not to. What better way to tell the front office fuck you than to stop supporting a team when they suck horribly for an extended period of time? 2-3 years...yeah sure, that happens and freaking out over it is somewhat pointless. But 10 years with one exception is unacceptable. I'd be embarrassed to spend money on a team that pulls that shit on their fans.

I would like to see people stop complaining about payroll. Payroll isn't that bad at all. I don't get the complaints about the Dolans. It's the horrible drafting and the embarrassing returns from trading their consecutive Cy Young winners. Predicting the Pronk and Grady injuries was impossible as far as I know, so complaining about those contracts is pretty senseless.

Casey Blake return was terrific, but still doesn't make up for just absolutely wasting the hell out of assets like Lee and CC. The drafting and those two trades are a huge reason the Indians have done nothing the last few years, while Cliff Lee and CC have contended for other teams ever since.

Anyone could see that coming. They survived on the juice and ever since MLB began testing more heavily they have been hurt every season.
 
Yeah, Cleveland is practically the same size as Los Angeles, Dallas and Atlanta.

Those are top-10 media markets.

I come back to this chart. The Indians had a better winning % than 16 teams over a 10 year span. And a payroll higher than 11 of them.

We can sit here and bitch about this team - but the fact that they are consistently in the bottom 5 in attendance doesn't match-up to their performance on the field. They aren't a bottom 5 team.

But then you overlook Minny, SD, St. Louis, Arizona and San Fran.


Total playoff appearances since 2000.

Looks like there are a lot of other clubs that are "run like shit" by your standards...
I am including teams with 3 appearances (since the Tribe were on the brink of the playoffs in 2005 with 93 wins). Not too mention the Tribe has won 90 games or more four times since 2000 ... I would hardly consider this organization as one that is run like shit...

  1. New York 11
  2. St Louis 8
  3. Atlanta 7
  4. Minnesota 6
  5. Boston 6
  6. Anaheim 6
  7. Philly 5
  8. Oakland 5
  9. LA 4
  10. Arizona 4
    [*]Tampa Bay 3
    [*]San Fran 3
    [*]Houston 3
    [*]Chicago 3
    [*]Chi Cubs 3
    [*]Texas 2
    [*]Seattle 2
    [*]San Diego 2
    [*]NY Mets 2
    [*]Milwaukee 2
    [*]Detroit 2
    [*]Colorado 2
    [*]Cleveland 2
    [*]Miami/Florida 1
    [*]Cinci 1
    [*]Washington 0
    [*]Toronto 0
    [*]Pitt 0
    [*]Kansas City 0
    [*]Baltimore 0


(I had it sorted, oh well I give up... It is 5:!5... Time to get the hell out of my office...)

Post a chart that shows the gap of playoff appearances.
 
But then you overlook Minny, SD, St. Louis, Arizona and San Fran.




Post a chart that shows the gap of playoff appearances.

I have an excell one I created that shows the playoff appearances every year since 2000. It does show gaps but that is pretty consistent with all the smaller market teams across the board wit the exceptions of the big guns... I am not sure how to post excel charts in here... Obviously from my last one...
 
I have an excell one I created that shows the playoff appearances every year since 2000. It does show gaps but that is pretty consistent with all the smaller market teams across the board wit the exceptions of the big guns... I am not sure how to post excel charts in here... Obviously from my last one...

A screen shot would be the easiest way.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top