The Philadelphia Dumpster fire

[go cavs275]

I have no issue with what Philadelphia is doing. None whatsoever.

Unfortunately for them, you need a significant amount of luck (drafting Steph Curry 7th and Klay Thompson 11th or landing the No. 1 pick in the draft three out of four years for example) in the drafting process for this to work and they simply haven't had it yet.

But this upcoming draft they'll have their own pick PLUS the Lakers pick (plus they have the ability to swap picks with the Kings if Sacto happen to win the lotto), so it's absolutely possible that Philly ends up with two top five picks.

They snag Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray in the draft, bring Saric over, and get Embiid healthy enough to play or trade and people might not be laughing anymore.

Came here to basically say this. Worth noting though that the Lakers pick is Top-3 protected (and again in '17, unprotected in '18), either way its a solid chance at an extra top-5 pick this year.

 

[CavsFanJapan]

They are at 24 losses and counting. 2 more to tie themselves and us and 3 more to own it all to themselves.

As for them tanking, I have no problems with it either. Drafting is a huge crap shoot and the more selections you have just gives you more chances to get a good player. We were unlucky to have some of the worst drafts during our crap shoot.

 

[Triumph36]

I have no issue with what Philadelphia is doing. None whatsoever.

Unfortunately for them, you need a significant amount of luck (drafting Steph Curry 7th and Klay Thompson 11th or landing the No. 1 pick in the draft three out of four years for example) in the drafting process for this to work and they simply haven't had it yet.

But this upcoming draft they'll have their own pick PLUS the Lakers pick (plus they have the ability to swap picks with the Kings if Sacto happen to win the lotto), so it's absolutely possible that Philly ends up with two top five picks.

They snag Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray in the draft, bring Saric over, and get Embiid healthy enough to play or trade and people might not be laughing anymore.

they'll also very likely get 1sts from miami and okc too. between those, their assorted future assets, and the ability to absorb $ they'll have a lot of firepower to move up in the draft again to get a potential third top 10 pick.

this is why smart execution is soooo important in the front office, especially when tanking. it gives a team so much more breathing room. without those 2016 picks, missing on embiid would've been a pretty big blow to the rebuild. now? they're stacked for the 2016 draft all because they made simple moves based on the big picture. thad young? he's never been that good and didn't seem to fit in the rebuild: boom, extra 1st rounder. javale mcgee? sure, lets pay him to hang out for awhile: boom, extra 1st rounder. the reigning ROY winner who isn't even good and only won because his draft sucked? ya, he's expendable too: boom, extra 1st rounder from a team in the midst of a disaster. move after move after move, all putting them in a better position long-term.

They are at 24 losses and counting. 2 more to tie themselves and us and 3 more to own it all to themselves.

As for them tanking, I have no problems with it either. Drafting is a huge crap shoot and the more selections you have just gives you more chances to get a good player. We were unlucky to have some of the worst drafts during our crap shoot.

completely false. the cavs were presented with opportunity after opportunity to select great players. cavs fans were unlucky to have an incompetent gm and front office who could not identify those players.

there was one draft in which the overall quality was bad, and they still managed to make the worst pick possible. granted, gilbert shoulders a lot of the blame for that one more so than the rest of the front office, but the point still stands.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I'm really impressed by Jahlil Okafor. That kid is going to be a fucking beast.

He was pushing ALL of our guys around, banging inside and getting buckets.

That dude is for real! They should be very happy to have Okafor. He's going to be a player for a longgg time.

On another note, Nerlens Noel might be able to shatter a polycarbonate backboard with his jumper. Jeeeeesh!

Gumby can't shoot worth a damn, but his hands are quicker than a fox.

 

[Rich]

bottoming out and tanking is the best path to a title for the vast majority of teams. doesn't mean it'll get you anywhere once the lottery balls have landed though. and it's certainly worth noting not all teams actually have title aspirations and are willing to make the sacrifices ($$, losing, whatever else) necessary to get there. of course nobody will ever admit it publicly, but lots are content with being on the treadmill if it'll get em a round in the playoffs and half decent attendance numbers. and that's obviously ok; they are the ones putting up hundreds of millions to buy a sports franchise. but, they aren't gonna actually win a title trying any sort of rebuild-on-the-fly nonsense.

also, it's incredibly premature to dismiss the 76ers rebuild considering 2 of their top 5 picks have missed entire seasons. of course they're still going to be awful. yes, embiid is likely a bust because of his super poor attitude seemingly killing any chance of full recovery from injury, but noel can still be ok and okafor looks good (on one end of the court, at least...). most importantly, the absolute last thing they should be criticized for is lack of free agent spending. paying out a ton of money for anyone at any point in the past 3yrs would've been horrendously bad. you don't hand out huge contracts without a core in place - period.

edit: regarding the cavs, yes, their rebuild was mostly a disaster until they were bailed out by lebron, love, etc. that has nothing to do with tanking and everything to do with piss poor front office decisions though. tanking put them in a position to rebuild through the draft with an incredibly strong core; that is independent of their terrible draft picks. tanking will only get a team so far, the front office needs to hold up their end of the deal too.

This is just an argument over what a successful build actually looks like. If the only thing that makes something a successful rebuild is actually winning a title, then the vast majority of teams that tank don't succeed.

Now, this is something that can't be dismissed.

also, it's incredibly premature to dismiss the 76ers rebuild considering 2 of their top 5 picks have missed entire seasons. of course they're still going to be awful. yes, embiid is likely a bust because of his super poor attitude seemingly killing any chance of full recovery from injury

You can't say it's premature to judge a rebuild because the very players the rebuild is reliant on are busts/injured. That's EXACTLY one of the risks you take bottoming out. Missing on draft picks/picks being injury prone.

Moreover, I'm staunchly against the Philly approach of being as bad as humanly possibly by removing every single decent vet and keeping the payroll at the bare minimum for multiple years in a row. A year of it, ok. But this many years? Players learn bad habits by being surrounded by bad teammates. It's not smart to go this long without trying to add some talent.

EDIT: And meanwhile, for every person who says they don't have a problem with how Philly is doing this, clearly more do, or else they'd show up to the games. People can't say "I'm ALL for this idea" and then stop supporting the team. That's being for something in word only and not in action.

 

[KB]

What are they going to do if they get the #1 pick this year?

Take another big guy in Ben Simmons? That would mean their last four first round picks play either the PF or C spots on the floor....

It's like they don't even have a plan

 

[Cavatt]

What are they going to do if they get the #1 pick this year?

Take another big guy in Ben Simmons? That would mean their last four first round picks play either the PF or C spots on the floor....

It's like they don't even have a plan

Nerlens is going to be traded I think. They will want a guy who owns the floor to play with okafor.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Nerlens is going to be traded I think. They will want a guy who owns the floor to play with okafor.

If anything Embiid is the odd man out. Nerlens has shown he can play, despite not playing well this season. Embiids history is too much of a gamble if you have to pick two of the three.

As for Simmons, hes a SF in the NBA. No need to trade anyone.

 

[KB]

If anything Embiid is the odd man out. Nerlens has shown he can play, despite not playing well this season. Embiids history is too much of a gamble if you have to pick two of the three.

As for Simmons, hes a SF in the NBA. No need to trade anyone.

I don't think Simmons is a SF in the NBA. Kid is about 6'11 235 as an 19yr old kid....If he's a SF at the NBA level and he keeps improving his skill / body that would just be scary.

 

[bigfoot5415]

I don't think Simmons is a SF in the NBA. Kid is about 6'11 235 as an 19yr old kid....If he's a SF at the NBA level and he keeps improving his skill / body that would just be scary.

His height is irrelevant IMO. He is extremely athletic and great and creating plays. If anything his height matches Durant. I wouldnt let it fool you, hes a SF.

 

[KB]

His height is irrelevant IMO. He is extremely athletic and great and creating plays. If anything his height matches Durant. I wouldnt let it fool you, hes a SF.

I'm not saying he isn't athletic or good at making passes but that his body is going to develop into one that is best suited in the post.

I don't know if he'll have the lateral quickness or foot speed to play the 3 once he makes the jump to the NBA. This doesn't take into account the kid hasn't taken any 3's all year and I will be interested to see if his jumper is consistent out to 18+ feet before I'd label him a 3. The questions around his effective range in combination with his rebounding ability makes me think he's more than likely to end up at the 4 once he makes the jump.

Not saying there isn't a possibility that you won't turn out to be correct in the end but from the small sample size I've seen I see a 4 with a similar skill set to Garnett.

 

[Ohio]

He's like Draymond Green except significantly more talented and athletic in every way.

He could be a SF. He could be a small ball center.

 

[Simon]

Watched LSU a little bit last night. Ben Simmons is a rebounding machine. He had 20 last night.

He is a great passer as well.

A lot of people will like this: His favorite player is LeBron.

 

[Cavatt]

If anything Embiid is the odd man out. Nerlens has shown he can play, despite not playing well this season. Embiids history is too much of a gamble if you have to pick two of the three.

As for Simmons, hes a SF in the NBA. No need to trade anyone.

Well for me the question is does Embiid have any value? Prob not at least now. Maybe in the future.

Nerlens has a lot of value, which is why I could see him traded down the line because they may want a stretch 4 instead since they have a really traditional center. You could argue of course that Okafor is such a def liability that they have to keep Noel.

Imagine we drafted Val and Drummond. Is that good or bad for trades?

 

[Rich]

What are they going to do if they get the #1 pick this year?

Take another big guy in Ben Simmons? That would mean their last four first round picks play either the PF or C spots on the floor....

It's like they don't even have a plan

I guess I'd like to see someone run through the last three drafts and tell me what they would have done differently if they were Philly in those situations.

Which guy are you passing on? The one they actually got flak for taking was Okafor because they had taken two Centers before him........but that seems like that was probably a pretty smart pick.