So Long, Mo Gotti Williams

[Scar4343]

I don't agree with this analysis. I think it's highly unlikely that Varejao is going to be healthy and high-functioning through a long playoff run. So that makes us effectively 8 deep.

Even if you make that assumption, you'd have to also assume that A) we're not bringing back JR or B) we're doing nothing to replace him with a productive player. I think that's highly unlikely, so I'll stick with us being at least 9 deep even if you don't count AV(because apparently every other team's Top 9 is invulnerable to injury).

I love Delly but he is going to get exposed like he did in the Finals if you play him for a long period against top-level competition. That makes us 7 deep.

Delly got exposed in the Finals?!?! I thought he outplayed the MVP in Game 3 then after being hospitalized struggled with his shot in the remaining games but still played solid D on one of the best scorers in the league and held him to .443/.385 shooting(well below his normal shooting) and 4.7 turnovers per game. Perhaps most importantly, he kept him off the FT line(4.3 FTA per game). I think that's a solid performance for our 3rd PG playing in a role way bigger than he would or should have to. I'll continue to count him just as much as I'll count Patty Mills(you think he'd have fared better against Curry if he was the only PG on the roster?), Barbosa, Livingston, etc. So, still at 9 deep and likely at 10 if we add JR or another contributor(we will).

Look at the Spurs top 9. Every one of those guys is a proven championship-level contributor when they are healthy, and have showed that they can make it through long playoff runs. If you think of Shump and TT as our fifth and sixth players in the rotation, they are very one-dimensional compared to guys like Duncan, West, Diaw, or Ginobli who you might think of as the 5th or 6th best players on the Spurs.

The Spurs are the exception, not the rule. However, I think Diaw/West/Ginobili are being overrated by many on here like they're in their primes. They're still good players but there's a reason they're playing limited minutes off the bench. Ginobili had a career low in ppg last year, the lowest ORtg of his career, the lowest PER since his rookie year and his lowest TS% since his 2nd year in the league. He'll be 38 years old this year. Diaw at his peak was a nice role player and essentially an above average player. His efficiency was horrible last year and his numbers were down almost across the board. West had pretty nice numbers across the board but at this point in his career is at best equivalent to TT. He's better offensively but TT is a better rebounder and defender.

We need more quality depth to be secure as a championship team. I don't know how anyone who watched Lebron try to drag us to a championship against the Warriors while relying on people like Delly/Shump/TT can miss that.

What does secure as a championship team mean? Add LeBron and TT to the guys we have under contract NOW and we're the best team in the East and have a shot to beat anyone in the West.

It's like we have the opposite of homers around here lately. They look for any flaw or vulnerability they can. They assume the following: we're going to have a rash of injuries, other teams are going to stay healthy(despite some of them having much older players), our guys are no good, other teams have guys that can step in and start a Finals game in roster spots 1-15. None of these things are true and the sooner you realize that is the sooner you could start to appreciate that our front office is assembling a championship contender roster at great expense to the owner. An expense that is almost unprecedented.

Even if you think we NEED 15 All-Star players on our roster, guess what? They ain't coming. Your desire for "bench pieces" isn't going to convince them that they're going to get minutes here and, guess what? Guys who can still play WANT minutes. And, by the way, that INCLUDES guys that are still on our roster. You think LeBron wants to play 28 minutes? GTFOH, he's chasing the all-time scoring record, wants to be in the MVP race and is used to playing a lot. He played a career low in minutes last year and I doubt he wants to go much lower. Kevin Love came back here to PLAY in the playoffs and I don't think that means 26 minutes a night. He was supposedly unhappy with 16/9 last year, how do you think he'd feel about 14/7? TT will be signing a big contract and will want to play to earn it.

Jesus, it's like people can't be happy about anything. I'd offer to hook you guys up with Kate Upton or Bar Rafaeli and you'd be like "Well, what if she's bad in bed?"

Just like the cliché "there's only one ball", there's only 240 minutes. Players want to play.

 

[Kbiz]

I don't agree with this analysis. I think it's highly unlikely that Varejao is going to be healthy and high-functioning through a long playoff run. So that makes us effectively 8 deep. I love Delly but he is going to get exposed like he did in the Finals if you play him for a long period against top-level competition. That makes us 7 deep. And it is more role-player depth than really high-quality depth. Look at the Spurs top 9. Every one of those guys is a proven championship-level contributor when they are healthy, and have showed that they can make it through long playoff runs. If you think of Shump and TT as our fifth and sixth players in the rotation, they are very one-dimensional compared to guys like Duncan, West, Diaw, or Ginobli who you might think of as the 5th or 6th best players on the Spurs.

We need more quality depth to be secure as a championship team. I don't know how anyone who watched Lebron try to drag us to a championship against the Warriors while relying on people like Delly/Shump/TT can miss that.

Agree with a lot of what you're saying but if you're making that argument, you would also have to look at it from another angle; The Spurs top 9 have been championship-level contributors for so long b/c the Spurs have been pretty healthy during their championship runs. Even when one of their "Big Three" (Ginobli, Parker, or Duncan) appeared run-down, here comes Leonard to pick them up, who you could argue, has extended their championship window the past 4 years. In essence, Mills, Splitter, Diaw, even Bonner, haven't had to play out of their roles during the playoffs, remaining comfortable and allowing the system to continue to work.

Had we had a healthy Love and Irving, perhaps Delly/Shump/TT/JR would've contributed at the "Spurs" level. A Delly/JR/Shump/TT/AV lineup isn't necessarily worse than Mills/Diaw/Splitter/Bonner/etc. They become worse when they are asked to perform out of their respective roles.

 

[macbdog]

So with Mo back we have the best and 3rd best pg this franchise have ever had.

All we need to do is bring back Mark Price to have the top 3 franchise pg's of all time. (Terell Brandon wasn't good until the Suns, and Miller is 4th best imo)

So who is with me? Bring back Mark Price for the final roster spot?

Head coach.

 

[Just Checkin]

Well last year Mo was assisted on less shots than previous years so that likely hurt his percentages. At least if he's paired with a bigger guard he won't have to shoulder too much of a burden offensively as he did in Minny (being the only PG after Rubio was hurt) and Charlotte (replacing Kemba while he was hurt).

I'm on the record thinking we don't need that much more offense if we can stay healthy. If we can snag a defender or at least a wing that can spread the floor and defend better than JJ could, I think we'll be fine.

 

[cavsfever]

Even if you make that assumption, you'd have to also assume that A) we're not bringing back JR or B) we're doing nothing to replace him with a productive player. I think that's highly unlikely, so I'll stick with us being at least 9 deep even if you don't count AV(because apparently every other team's Top 9 is invulnerable to injury).

There's a difference between 'vulnerable to injury' and '32 years old with an extensive injury history coming off the most devastating season-ending injury you can have'.

Delly got exposed in the Finals?!?! I thought he outplayed the MVP in Game 3 then after being hospitalized struggled with his shot in the remaining games but still played solid D on one of the best scorers in the league and held him to .443/.385 shooting(well below his normal shooting) and 4.7 turnovers per game. Perhaps most importantly, he kept him off the FT line(4.3 FTA per game).

Delly did a solid job on D but Curry still averaged 26 points on 20 shots and 6.3 assists against us. That is hardly shutting him down. Then you have to look at how Delly *totally vanished* and was basically completely useless on offense. That's half the game.

I think that's a solid performance for our 3rd PG playing in a role way bigger than he would or should have to.

Dude, you said it, not me. Delly is a 3rd string PG who should not have to play a big role. He played a big role because we lacked quality depth.

I'll continue to count him just as much as I'll count Patty Mills(you think he'd have fared better against Curry if he was the only PG on the roster?), Barbosa, Livingston, etc. So, still at 9 deep and likely at 10 if we add JR or another contributor(we will).

Mills -- not a 3rd string PG. Livingston -- not a 3rd string PG. 2nd string PGs. These are better players than Delly. They would play ahead of him if they came here.

The Spurs are the exception, not the rule.

If you want to win a championship you have to plan for the exception. Don't know if you've heard about this, but to be the champion you have to be better than *every other team in the league*. Not the typical team.

However, I think Diaw/West/Ginobili are being overrated by many on here like they're in their primes. They're still good players but there's a reason they're playing limited minutes off the bench. Ginobili had a career low in ppg last year, the lowest ORtg of his career, the lowest PER since his rookie year and his lowest TS% since his 2nd year in the league. He'll be 38 years old this year. Diaw at his peak was a nice role player and essentially an above average player. His efficiency was horrible last year and his numbers were down almost across the board. West had pretty nice numbers across the board but at this point in his career is at best equivalent to TT. He's better offensively but TT is a better rebounder and defender.

The aging argument on the Spurs is a fair one. It's their major weakness. But we'll see how West does in a more limited role, I think he'll be fresh for the playoffs.

What does secure as a championship team mean? Add LeBron and TT to the guys we have under contract NOW and we're the best team in the East and have a shot to beat anyone in the West.

The entire point here is to go from 'have a shot' to beat the best in the West to BETTER THAN the best in the West. That's what it means to be more secure as a championship team.

Jesus, it's like people can't be happy about anything. I'd offer to hook you guys up with Kate Upton or Bar Rafaeli and you'd be like "Well, what if she's bad in bed?"

This team will be a failure if it doesn't win a championship. That means it's not enough to be dating a hot model, in the end we have to be dating THE HOTTEST MODEL IN THE WORLD. Kate Upton can be better looking than any girl you've ever had, but if Rafaeli is hotter (spoiler, I think she is) then you've lost. Bringing a championship to Cleveland is the highest bar there is, and you don't fuck around with weaknesses on your team that could come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[MirORich]

You ask: what do we do? Trade and rebuild? No, but we sit here anxious as all Fuck and pray we pick up really strong bench pieces bx there's pretty good chances not all of our best players will be able to suit up at 100% in the finals next year.

(Against an upgraded spurs team

That currently has FAR less depth than us. Man, not getting David West really shook you hard.

 

[Kbiz]

People are really undervaluing the Mo Williams signing in here. I am not sure if it's because of all the "bigger" names mentioned that we've targeted and missed on or just the frustration stemming from the TT negotiations but Williams gives us everything we need at the 1/2 back-up PG position. Him and Delly's games are completely different, allowing us a lot of flexibility.

Were the lights to big for him years ago? Sure. He had the spotlight jitters. LBJ was the best player on the planet and he was relied upon to be the 2nd option as Z's game began to dwindle. Teams game planned for that and he looked rather pedestrian. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mo played his best in his entire career alongside LBJ. He was getting open looks left and right, which will be even more open on this team.

While his FG% has gone down in recent years, he has had to play out of his role the last two years. You know what hasn't really fluctuated much? his 3PT%. When not relied on to be the starting PG, he has continued to shoot close to 40%. Just by joining this team, he has already become our 2nd best free throw shooter. We left a lot of points at the line in losses during the finals. I am not saying Williams is the difference between winning and losing against GS, I am saying that had Delly been able to get some rest after three games...had JR actually hit some of his wide-open 3's, the series could've gone a different way.

 

[MirORich]

@David.

Instead of continuing to make bad arguments in this thread over and over, go back and answer to what I laid out in my James Joyce length opus 3-4 pages back.

Your concept of expectation and awareness of the team we have in relation to the other teams in the NBA is really "special"

 

[OldSkool]

There's alot of time left in the offseason. Simply put, I trust in Griff. I don't remember anyone predicting those deals that not only got us Shump, Moz and JR, but got rid of Waiters too. Love the Mo Gotti signing, especially if they bring back Delly too.

 

[chino98713104]

not sure why we didnt go after lillard to backup kyrie

 

[Kbiz]

not sure why we didnt go after lillard to backup kyrie

 

[MirORich]

Why are you taking this sp personal? I literally haven't even addressed you, you fucking weirdo.

My arguments are far from outrageous seeing as many other posters are making the same ones, too so why don't you chill and find something else to do


What kind of world do you live in where you feel like being an annoying little shit will make me want have a conversation with you about what you want ?

How short is your memory?

We had several non personal attack back and forths in this very thread last night.

When I addressed your concerns and unrealistic expectations in the post I just mentioned, you simply ignored and continued making the same faulty arguments with other people.

How difficult is it, when you are the one saying how underwhelming things are, to address and intelligently respond to a post that lays out an argument of why you are wrong or have out of whack expectation given the current state of the roster, the rosters of the other NBA teams, and the tools available to us to make additions to our team(besides the financially record setting commitments we are making on current player retention)?

But go ahead, just make it personal and defensive instead of that easier than simply responding to the ON TOPIC post I'm referring to.

And conmpared to how you have treated and been treated by some posters in this thread, to say that I'm being personal or making a personal attack is beyond disengenuous.

 

[David.]

That's a pretty young, very good, not yet paid player to accept a bench role.

not sure why we didnt go after lillard to backup kyrie

 

[stowfan]

Mo is a great fit between Kyrie and Delly.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

View: https://twitter.com/mowilliams/status/618237050571980800

Glad Mo thinks of it as coming home. Glad Mo's GLAD to come home...