The worst team in the league

[AvonCavsFan]

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard :chuckles: You definitely weren't the first to come to the realization that our current starting line-up wasn't our best and we weren't using our best line-ups on the floor....

Regardless, if the team plays like they did against the Bulls last night for the rest of the year, even if they lose, that's something you have to be okay with. As long as the pathetic blowouts where the team quits halfway through the second quarter stop, then ultimately the results will be okay with me whether they be wins or losses.

how do you know I wasn't the first? Can you prove it?

Yes, I know you were in the same bandwagon with me on the small ball lineup..the other part of what I was saying, was to let them play some REAL minutes also...



Byron, now that I know you are reading...give Jawads minutes to Graham...and let JJ be the backup 4,5..no more Hollins....

 

[KI4MVP]

Do we need to start a "Worst Record/Most Ping Pong Balls Watch" thread, or is it pretty much a given at this point?

On the bright side there, even if we don't win the lottery in that case, the worst we could do was 4th, and there appears to be at least 4 players in this draft that have the potential to be impact players pretty early in their careers.

I tried to edit the thread title to "No Longer the worst team in the league", but it didn't stick. We were MUCH better last night.

 

[Jon]

Yes, I am less convinced...now what took him so long to figure this thing out?

Head coaches are deliberate. It wasn't just Mike Brown who was stubborn. They want to give something a good long look because a few games doesn't always tell the story, and of course there are always other factors we aren't aware of. It's not a bad thing. Not at all.

 

[JAY1977]

How in the hell are we even remotly close to being in the playoff race with this kind of record? Are all the teams trying to tank this season?
This gives the FO hope that we can stick it out and just make a few changes/trades to compete.

 

[gregdawg]

Are all the teams trying to tank this season?
This gives the FO hope that we can stick it out and just make a few changes/trades to compete.

with the roster the cavs have...i have confidence that no team can lose as many games as the Cavs...even if the other teams are trying to tank. a Cavs team trying to win will still lose more games than another team trying to lose on purpose.

 

[NarlCavs]

Not sure if I'm too confident for the future just yet for a team in the Cavs current state that is now starting 34 and 35 year old players. The new starting backcourt also shot 9-34 last night.
There's only so much you can do with this collection of players. It's more about having energy and playing with effort each night. That had been lacking and it was nice to see it return.

 

[Jon]

We also need to use lineups that make some sort of sense, and I was never all that fond of sacrificing the starting unit just to benefit the bench. This lineup will likely get exposed, but they should be able to maintain better floor spacing and take advantage of our shooters.

 

[WhoWeAre]

We also need to use lineups that make some sort of sense, and I was never all that fond of sacrificing the starting unit just to benefit the bench. This lineup will likely get exposed, but they should be able to maintain better floor spacing and take advantage of our shooters.

That was never the case. At the beginning of the season Moon seemed like he might be our best choice at SF, and JJ got the starting nod so that he could develop. That meant putting Jamison on the bench since he's a tweener in terms of his size/position.

That wasn't done to benefit the bench, but rather we honestly thought those players were our best starting 5 at the time -- with the exception of Jamison who was put on the bench for JJ's development.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

how do you know I wasn't the first? Can you prove it?

Yes, I know you were in the same bandwagon with me on the small ball lineup..the other part of what I was saying, was to let them play some REAL minutes also...



Byron, now that I know you are reading...give Jawads minutes to Graham...and let JJ be the backup 4,5..no more Hollins....

I definitley was on the bandwagon earlier than most, but I can't take credit either. First person I saw mention the starting line-up woes, within the first week of the season(which led me to evaluate it and then jump on the badnwagon) was MYoung, so I have to give him credit here.

 

[KI4MVP]

we now could very well be the worst team in franchise history. Our -9.7 average margin of victory (margin of loss?) is worse than the 17 win cavs -9.6 in 03 or the 15 win cavs in '82 at -8.5. Only the 15 win first year expansion cavs team at -11.2 was worse. They way we've been playing lately, we'll top that soon.

The worst loss in NBA history was on December 17, 1991. The Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Miami heat 148-80. Our next game is almost exactly 19 years later, December 15th, 2010. Which would be more surprising - our keeping the game within 10 points, or the heat breaking that record?

JJ Hickson, who was supposed to emerge as our best player this year just played a game where he played 24 minutes and we were outscored by 30 points with him playing on a night where we lost by 29 points. We actually won the half of the game JJ didn't play.

Jawad Williams has a PER of just 5.7 and we have been outscored by 3.1 ppg when he plays, yet we are 6.9 ppg better with him playing than the -10.0 when he sits. The -3.1 is sadly 2nd best on the team. Only Boobie is better at -2.8. The worst on the team? I would have guessed JJ, but it's actually Mo at -13.8.

 

[CzBoobie]

If they continue this pace, they will be the worst team in history...of the NBA. I didn't expect much this season, but my prediction around 30 wins seems utterly crazy now...and to think that some predicted around 45 wins, lulz. Kelly Dwyer looks like a basketball mastermind now.

 

[DougHeil]

we now could very well be the worst team in franchise history. Our -9.7 average margin of victory (margin of loss?) is worse than the 17 win cavs -9.6 in 03 or the 15 win cavs in '82 at -8.5. Only the 15 win first year expansion cavs team at -11.2 was worse. They way we've been playing lately, we'll top that soon.

The worst loss in NBA history was on December 17, 1991. The Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Miami heat 148-80. Our next game is almost exactly 19 years later, December 15th, 2010. Which would be more surprising - our keeping the game within 10 points, or the heat breaking that record?

JJ Hickson, who was supposed to emerge as our best player this year just played a game where he played 24 minutes and we were outscored by 30 points with him playing on a night where we lost by 29 points. We actually won the half of the game JJ didn't play.

Jawad Williams has a PER of just 5.7 and we have been outscored by 3.1 ppg when he plays, yet we are 6.9 ppg better with him playing than the -10.0 when he sits. The -3.1 is sadly 2nd best on the team. Only Boobie is better at -2.8. The worst on the team? I would have guessed JJ, but it's actually Mo at -13.8.

I'll be honest; I wish that PER stuff would get shelved. I cringe each time I read about it.

 

[czvo]

I'll be honest; I wish that PER stuff would get shelved. I cringe each time I read about it.

What's funny is that all the people who never played the game at the NBA level look at advanced stats as some super secret way of determining who the best players are. They look at LeBron leading in PER the last few years and say, "See, he's the best player in the game!"

Meanwhile, you talk to almost every coach, scout, and former player, and they all agree... it's Kobe Bryant... and it's not close.

 

[KI4MVP]

What's funny is that all the people who never played the game at the NBA level look at advanced stats as some super secret way of determining who the best players are. They look at LeBron leading in PER the last few years and say, "See, he's the best player in the game!"

Meanwhile, you talk to almost every coach, scout, and former player, and they all agree... it's Kobe Bryant... and it's not close.

They certainly don't all agree, otherwise he would also be MVP the last two years.

And PER certainly is a reasonable statistical summary. Saying Jawad Williams has a PER of 5.7 gives a concise statistical summary. Certainly easier than listing out his per 36 minute numbers and various shooting percentages. The number 5.6 tells you without looking at the rest that they are going to be pretty bad across the board.

 

[czvo]

They certainly don't all agree, otherwise he would also be MVP the last two years.

And PER certainly is a reasonable statistical summary. Saying Jawad Williams has a PER of 5.7 gives a concise statistical summary. Certainly easier than listing out his per 36 minute numbers and various shooting percentages. The number 5.6 tells you without looking at the rest that they are going to be pretty bad across the board.

I'm not saying PER should be scrapped. It's not a terrible way of assessing the value and production of a player. My main point was really that you can't just look at PER to determine who's better than who.