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To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

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To Tank or Not to Tank

  • Yes, I want to secure a high draft pick and develop the young players.

    Votes: 209 71.8%
  • No, go for the most wins and play the vets.

    Votes: 34 11.7%
  • I'm still pissed that Disney bought Star Wars.

    Votes: 48 16.5%

  • Total voters
    291
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People are also scared that Kyrie will consider the body of work we've had under him and ditch us for nothing or essentially nothing if we don't hurry (and by "hurry" I mean I'd be willing to take shortcuts that could risk mediocrity.) The fact that people have been able to get at this, and possible attendance issues, in this thread without nearly the pushback they had last season tells me something.
kyrie is pretty much chained to cleveland for years.

worrying about "impressing" the rookies, sophomores, and even third year players is not good. plus if he is the real deal he's also likely smart enough to see what the team is building anyway.
 
kyrie is pretty much chained to cleveland for years.

worrying about "impressing" the rookies, sophomores, and even third year players is not good. plus if he is the real deal he's also likely smart enough to see what the team is building anyway.

"Years" could theoretically mean as few as three after this one, meaning under some people's timeframes we'll finally be able to give Kyrie one playoff appearance, in his last season here.

I don't expect it to be quite that few, but you have to understand people's concern after what happened two years ago, and also understand people's impatience when we haven't cleared .500 in any of our sports in that same time frame (with the Browns exceedingly unlikely to do so this season, and the Indians likely to strip down and rebuild in 2013.)
 
"Years" could theoretically mean as few as three after this one, meaning under some people's timeframes we'll finally be able to give Kyrie one playoff appearance, in his last season here.

Yeah, if the Cavs theoretically dont match an offer when Kyrie is a restricted free agent.

And theoretically Dan Gilbert could sell me the Cavs for a dollar.
 
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Well folks ... IMO we need to get a high pick. If it is going to be called tanking cos of lack of talent or "managerial" tanking, I dont care. We dont have enough talent to take us to the promised land this year .... so be it. But we can turn that negative into a positive by atleast landing a high talent next year. Also, When I went to the Cavs vs Bulls game I noticed a lot of people leaving by the beginning of 4th Q. And this is only the second game. This trend may make it seem like an alarming business model and If I was Dan Gilbert I will be worried about the future if we cannot churn out good results. Dan needs to bite the bullet and take the financial loss this year. Atleast this year TT, Kyrie and Dion will have good minutes and experience.

Next year we need to go after viable FA's over pay if necessary and actually try to aim for the playoffs. If the Cavs want to be successfull, They need to showcase a sense of urgency and action plan to energize the fan base and give Kyrie and TT a reason to sign back with the Cavs. Otherwise we will be stuck in the eternal mediocre-city of hell.
 
Yeah, all this talk of Kyrie leaving if we go for another top pick is insane. People just don't understand how the NBA works.
 
You obviously have no idea what restricted free agency means.

So I take it you skipped over the next few words after that paragraph, where I said this worst-case scenario would probably not happen?

I may have been off by one year in a worst-case scenario of getting the shortest extension after the initial 4 years, still not a long time frame.
 
its the implication that the players or coaching staff is intentionally tying to lose games and thats not the case. if the Cavs lose stretches or come out with a poor record . it is because the roster wasnt capable or hadnt grown enough to win those games. not some intentional intention to not be competitive.

Has ANYONE actually expressed this thought? That the players or coaching staff are intentionally tanking games?

Or did you just assume some people think this.
 
Yeah, all this talk of Kyrie leaving if we go for another top pick is insane. People just don't understand how the NBA works.

Forgive me for being fooled once when I, like most all of us, was totally certain LeBron was going to be here for the long haul.

I do understand, and I was only off by one year (another team's offer must be 2+ years after the initial 4 year contract.)
 
Forgive me for being fooled once when I, like most all of us, was totally certain LeBron was going to be here for the long haul.

I do understand, and I was only off by one year (another team's offer must be 2+ years after the initial 4 year contract.)

Believe me, I wasn't talking about assuming Kyrie will stay because he's loyal or some crap. I wasn't fooled by that with James and certainly am not fooled by it with Kyrie. I also wasn't singling you out.
 
"Years" could theoretically mean as few as three after this one, meaning under some people's timeframes we'll finally be able to give Kyrie one playoff appearance, in his last season here.

I don't expect it to be quite that few, but you have to understand people's concern after what happened two years ago, and also understand people's impatience when we haven't cleared .500 in any of our sports in that same time frame (with the Browns exceedingly unlikely to do so this season, and the Indians likely to strip down and rebuild in 2013.)
but again, if he is the real deal, would he not be capable of seeing the young talent around him and bright future ahead of the team? if durant (extreme example, but whatev) was able to leave after okc had their first playoff appearance, would he? probably not, because he could see the potential of his teammates and realized how great they would become.


truthfully, i think what happened with lebron supports my case more than anything. he left largely because there was no future here. he was right, too. but not making the playoffs for a few years doesn't mean there would be no future here for kyrie; it'd be quite the opposite. it'd mean that if the cavs have any clue what they are doing, they will have accumulated a talented young core that can contend for a long time. they couldn't offer that to lebron and he left. if they can't offer it to kyrie, i think he'll leave too. trying to win too soon would likely put a ceiling on this team, and that ceiling wouldn't be contention. that, more than anything, would probably cause a repeat of lebron's decision.

basically, i think when kyrie is up for an extension he'll put more weight in "where are we going?" than "where have we been?"
 
but again, if he is the real deal, would he not be capable of seeing the young talent around him and bright future ahead of the team? if durant (extreme example, but whatev) was able to leave after okc had their first playoff appearance, would he? probably not, because he could see the potential of his teammates and realized how great they would become.


truthfully, i think what happened with lebron supports my case more than anything. he left largely because there was no future here. he was right, too. but not making the playoffs for a few years doesn't mean there would be no future here for kyrie; it'd be quite the opposite. it'd mean that if the cavs have any clue what they are doing, they will have accumulated a talented young core that can contend for a long time. they couldn't offer that to lebron and he left. if they can't offer it to kyrie, i think he'll leave too. trying to win too soon would likely put a ceiling on this team, and that ceiling wouldn't be contention. that, more than anything, would probably cause a repeat of lebron's decision.

basically, i think when kyrie is up for an extension he'll put more weight in "where are we going?" than "where have we been?"

Not really--we were close and I still think could've made something work if he stayed (even if it may have taken later than the 2011-2012 season to win a ring.)

I still think Durant's and Westbrook's committment to OKC are the exceptions; for most small markets, you have to build up winner in a short window and just hope.

You can say San Antonio is another "small market success story," but their market ranking per ESPN Future Rankings was something like 12th or 13th. Their situation cannot be compared to ours (we rank 20th,) let alone Detroit, Toronto, Milwaukee, Minn, etc. You can say Kevin Love signed an extension, but it's more likely than not he has one foot out the door as soon as it's up.

The thing that frustrates me is that long-term rebuilds are basically necessary in all but a few markets. The Lakers have only had 5 playoff misses in history, and having that few simply can't be attributed entirely to smart decision making by their front office.
 
Not really--we were close and I still think could've made something work if he stayed (even if it may have taken later than the 2011-2012 season to win a ring)

We were close.

But all signs pointed towards us getting worse. We had a very old team and no cap space. We had no second option for lebron and getting a wade/bosh type of talent would have all but been impossible given our situation.
 
We were close.

But all signs pointed towards us getting worse. We had a very old team and no cap space. We had no second option for lebron and getting a wade/bosh type of talent would have all but been impossible given our situation.

Why could nobody admit this 2 years ago?
 
We dont have much of a choice whether we tank or not. The good news is that the top prospects in this upcoming draft happen to fit the exact weak spots of our team.

This is the last year of the tank and then next year we go all out. We'll still have extra draft picks in the next few drafts to move up and target late lotto guys if we really like them anyways.

Lets get that last stud piece this year and then enjoy the ride.
 
Why could nobody admit this 2 years ago?

Because that Bosh trade actually was rumored to be in the works, and because we could've done as we did do with getting Shaq and Z off the books?

And yes, going back to what we "wanted" to see, we wanted to think that run could continue.
 
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