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Tristan Thompson

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I'm about done with this kid. If I have to see him turn down another wide open 15-footer... just take the damn shot. You're wide open. You've hit it before. You're not getting a better look with 5 on the shot clock. LET. THAT. BALL. FLY.

This is the attitude I have a problem with. Torn just clearly demonstrated he can hit the shot. Now he has to take it when it is wide open. It is a sequential growth process. This player switched his shooting hand in ONE YEAR.

This season can be summed up in 2 words. Unrealistic expectations.

You act like he should be somewhere he could not possibly be at now. His progress is already amazing. He was raw as hell when he showed up, and now he has turned into a double double machine.

There are 2 things TT can do, and he will be a really nice player. Keep working on the jumper and increasing his percentage in the paint. He could be an allstar if he did those 2 things.

In one offseason he has learned to shoot. Not impressed? He literally could not shoot until this year?

You guys are buying into a narrative that Rchfld has been spouting for years now, and he has been repeatedly wrong. "Garbage only player, career bench player, never develop a jumpshot, totally out of control with his body, will never have an offensive game." Somehow despite developing more and more every year, everyone still thinks he is a finished product. Absurd.

TT is the best post defender at his age in the league. He can beat any pf in the league off the dribble. He has switched hands. He has raised his ft% by more than 20 percentage points. The reason I am a fan is that he has proven all the doubters wrong over and over. He is nowhere near a finished project. No other young guy on the team has improved so much, yet he is supposed to be even better right now? So stupid. If Kyrie could improve half as much as TT has, he would be the best pg in the league.

I don't have a problem with starting AB over TT, he just needs to show he can shoot first. Putting Bennett out there now is just like putting Zeller in the starting lineup last year. I will say it again, TT is not the problem, he is the most consistent young guy on the team. There are 2 other guys starting who are much bigger problems.

p.s. David West was 4-13 with 7 rebounds tonight. Probably was just feeling a little under the weather.
 
I should clarify... done with him as a starter.

You also haven't read anything Rchfld has posted in the last 2 years if you think he believes that. I've seen him compliment TT numerous times, while still acknowledging that, given the way the league is developing, he's best used as either a small ball center or a backup PF. But I suppose I can leave Rchfld to speak for himself.

I fully recognize that TT can improve, and given his work ethic, he will improve. The problem is, he can improve on the individual stuff all he wants, but I still don't see a natural basketball player. Basketball is a game of quickness, not just in movement, but decision-making... and Tristan leaves a lot to be desired on that end. Whether it's catching the ball from 15 feet out and just standing there for 2 seconds before doing something, or setting a pick and just kind of floating rather than rolling to the open space, the kid just seems to lack quick thinking and spatial awareness. Ironically, that kind of goes out the window when he's hitting the offensive boards, and you would hope that it would translate to the rest of his game. But we're roughly 2.5 years in, and it just hasn't.

Love the guy, and I recognize that he's improved by leaps and bounds since being drafted. I just don't see the ceiling that some here see. An All-Star? I think what we're seeing from him now, numbers-wise, is roughly what he will top out at. If he gets any higher than that then either this team failed to acquire the talent necessary to compete for championships, or Tristan completely changed the way he plays the game.
 
Actually it's not. Torn is using stats to say TT is at least a top 3 shooting PF in the NBA. He's not taking into consideration if those shots are wide open or with a defender actually guarding him. Michael-Carter Williams is leading the league in steals at 3.11 per game. Ricky Rubio is second with 2.81. Going by Torn's logic, those two are, at least, the are top 3 defenders in the league. The hell with Tony Allen or the Queen.

Also, the Drummond reference was brought up by him. I already told him to get that weak shit outta here.

So that is no on the condescending as fuck thing I take it.
 
So that is no on the condescending as fuck thing I take it.

Just being realistic. Putting TT in the same category as two future HoF is trolling. Like I said, is Ricky Rubio a better perimeter defender than Lebron James because he have steals? Stats don't lie right?
 
Just being realistic. Putting TT in the same category as two future HoF is trolling. Like I said, is Ricky Rubio a better perimeter defender than Lebron James because he have steals? Stats don't lie right?

What are you talking about?

in the context of shooting you can compare anyone. I used the comparison to show Tristan did indeed have range and he was shooting proficiently. I also ensured to show his attempts. I also offered to compare Thompson with all the stretch 4's that have been drafted in the last 5 years . yet noone showed a name at all.

my comparisons were completely in context.

it still stands that Thompson,Waiters,Irving and zeller have been the most succesful starting lineup for the cavs since the build began. lets these guys start the rest of the season.

and my exact words were just as good in context of spacing.

so far what im seeing is Thompson shouldnt start because he isnt someone who is gonna shoot 20 shots a game as a primary scoring option.

anyways I supported my arguments.
Tristan is growing his shooting range. he is getting more comfortable taking the,. he still has alot of room for improvement
 
"Ill give ya a challenge rchfield name me 3 starting power forwards with a better mid range game this season than Tristan Thompson. and ill give you a statistical break down. showing comparable numbers."

Give me 2 starting PG's with better perimeter defense than Ricky Rubio.
 
"Ill give ya a challenge rchfield name me 3 starting power forwards with a better mid range game this season than Tristan Thompson. and ill give you a statistical break down. showing comparable numbers."

Give me 2 starting PG's with better perimeter defense than Ricky Rubio.

Nash and Kyrie.
 
Nash and Kyrie.

Rubio averages 2.9 spg. Kyrie only averages 1.1 and Nash is only 0.3 this year. Both cannot touch Rubio defensively. The stat proves that. Just like how Torn have shown that TT's shooting stats prove his theory correct in that TT is a top 3 jump shooting PF in the NBA.

I give TT major props. After switching shooting hands in the off-season, he's not a top 3 shooting PF in the league. At the rate he's going, he'll be approaching Steph Curry level with another off-season under his belt. :chuckles:
 
Rubio averages 2.9 spg. Kyrie only averages 1.1 and Nash is only 0.3 this year. Both cannot touch Rubio defensively. The stat proves that. Just like how Torn have shown that TT's shooting stats prove his theory correct in that TT is a top 3 jump shooting PF in the NBA.

I give TT major props. After switching shooting hands in the off-season, he's not a top 3 shooting PF in the league. At the rate he's going, he'll be approaching Steph Curry level with another off-season under his belt. :chuckles:

Joke flew right over your head.
 
his projections have been a lot more accurate than your supposed claim that he is on a "star trajectory."

I know you fear the Tristan Rainbow. you should embrace it and bask in its soft warm glow.

Ill give ya a challenge rchfield name me 3 starting power forwards with a better mid range game this season than Tristan Thompson. and ill give you a statistical break down. showing comparable numbers. We can also do a year by year progression and compare those as well.

This was supposed to actually say within the last 5 years but then I clarified that as well

Consider he has shown he can shoot 5-19 feet as well as any other starting pf in the league....... was this in his "projection"

all those guys have been in the league for 5 years, Love and Alrdridge are primary scoring options. We are comparing young talent.

but just a sample.

Aldridge
5-9 feet
FGA 68 FG
CategoryAldridge (%Att)ThompsonLast 7 games
5-9 attempts68(11%)83 (27%)26
5-9 %33.8%43.4%57.7%
10-14 att104 (16%)43 (14%)13
10-14 %42.3%44.2%53.8%
15-19 att219(35%)24 (8%)5
15-19 %46.5%45.860%
restricted ATT140 (23%)127 (42%)31
restricted %62.9%48%45.2%
In the paint Att82 (13%)107 (45%)31
In the Paint %36.6%44.958.1%
Mid Range Att391(63%)66 (22%)15
Mid Range %44.543.960&

<tbody>
</tbody>
618 301
Once again Aldridge is a primary shooter and has range out to 24 feet (which he takes about twice a game at 41%. 15 to 19 feet accounts for 35% of Aldridges shots and he shoots twice as much as Thompson. Cavs dont need Thompson to do that. The debate is about spacing and if Thompson can develop his mid range game to create that spacing.

Thompson has expanded his 10-19 game as he gets more comfortable he will start making more attempts he already increased his mid range attempts from 14% of his shots to 22%. and increased his percentage over 5 points. in his rookie season 6% of his shots was from mid range and he shot 37% in the paint.

Meanwhile Thompsons last 7 games has seen some really improved shooting in the same amount of attempts. So while people have been complaining about his spacing and the Cavs have been rattling off 100_ points game after game Thompson has been a part of that "flow" he is attacking the paint instead of the restricted area and it is paying dividends.

ill be happy to compare Thompson range wise with any starting PF drafted in the last five years. just gimmie 3.

so I went ahead and did a comparison
I would like to know where the dirks aldridges and loves that proliferate the NBA right now. all those are primary scoring options.

of course they create spacing for others they are shooting the ball 20 plus times a game.

its a simple challenge really give me three names of power forwards with strong mid range games that are starting in the league. ill compare them to Tristan.

Just being realistic. Putting TT in the same category as two future HoF is trolling. Like I said, is Ricky Rubio a better perimeter defender than Lebron James because he have steals? Stats don't lie right?

"Ill give ya a challenge rchfield name me 3 starting power forwards with a better mid range game this season than Tristan Thompson. and ill give you a statistical break down. showing comparable numbers."

Give me 2 starting PG's with better perimeter defense than Ricky Rubio.

now if you would like to start a thread discussing rick Rubios defense Ill be happy to get into that discussion. first we would have to define what statistical categories. would quantify as a measurement of of "perimeter" defense since unlike a mid range game there are not set perimeter shooting defense measurements. first ill need to watch some video and gather up a list.

ill have to do some comparisons with Chris paul, Kyle Lowry, Avery Bradley... although I believe he isnt starting at PG this year.

Efficiency wise the top 5 teams defensively against point guards is
LA Clippers,,Atlanta,,OKC, Toronto and Denver.
Chris Paul, Jeff Teague, Russell Westbrook,Kyle Lowry, Ty Lawson then followed by Drew bledsoe

but those are overall efficiencies not specific to perimeter play.
 
Rubio averages 2.9 spg. Kyrie only averages 1.1 and Nash is only 0.3 this year. Both cannot touch Rubio defensively. The stat proves that. Just like how Torn have shown that TT's shooting stats prove his theory correct in that TT is a top 3 jump shooting PF in the NBA.

I give TT major props. After switching shooting hands in the off-season, he's not a top 3 shooting PF in the league. At the rate he's going, he'll be approaching Steph Curry level with another off-season under his belt. :chuckles:


I wouldnt use Steals per game to establish rating a perimeter defender statistically.Just as I wouldnt use Blocks per games to measure FT efficiency. My comparison. now if the question was what guards are good at turnovers then SPG would be a perfect stat. ultimately though your example has nothing related to the stat i used and I still do not see where i claimed Thompson was a top 3 pf in the game.

anyways make your perimeter guard thread. and give me a couple days and we can see if we can come up with an appropiate formula for perimeter defense.
 
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I should clarify... done with him as a starter.

You also haven't read anything Rchfld has posted in the last 2 years if you think he believes that. I've seen him compliment TT numerous times, while still acknowledging that, given the way the league is developing, he's best used as either a small ball center or a backup PF. But I suppose I can leave Rchfld to speak for himself.

I fully recognize that TT can improve, and given his work ethic, he will improve. The problem is, he can improve on the individual stuff all he wants, but I still don't see a natural basketball player. Basketball is a game of quickness, not just in movement, but decision-making... and Tristan leaves a lot to be desired on that end. Whether it's catching the ball from 15 feet out and just standing there for 2 seconds before doing something, or setting a pick and just kind of floating rather than rolling to the open space, the kid just seems to lack quick thinking and spatial awareness. Ironically, that kind of goes out the window when he's hitting the offensive boards, and you would hope that it would translate to the rest of his game. But we're roughly 2.5 years in, and it just hasn't.

Love the guy, and I recognize that he's improved by leaps and bounds since being drafted. I just don't see the ceiling that some here see. An All-Star? I think what we're seeing from him now, numbers-wise, is roughly what he will top out at. If he gets any higher than that then either this team failed to acquire the talent necessary to compete for championships, or Tristan completely changed the way he plays the game.

To piggyback off of your point Czvosec, the comparison everyone makes is to a more athletic Andy, but I'm beginning to doubt if TT will ever be as good as Andy. Andy is nowhere near the athlete, but he's so naturally intelligent on the basketball court both on offense and defense and I think that part of his game doesn't get nearly enough credit. He's great at knowing the exact right type of screen to set, and he's one of the best bigs at directing offense from the high post alongside his knowledge of defensive positioning.

Obviously I haven't seen anything close to that level of BBIQ from TT, and I don't know if we ever will. I'm not sure how much of this will come with more experience when the game "slows down" for TT and he expands his skill set. For all I know he'll be even better than Andy at those areas later in his career. That said, I don't think it's a given to pencil him in as a better Andy based on what we've seen so far.
 
TT is not the problem with the Cavs lets try GEE, Clark, Jack if we had 5 Player that put out like TT we would be a top 4 team in the east. Last five games of the other teams starting PF against TT 25 -62 39 reb, TT 24-56 54 reb, No he is not a super star player but he plays great D and bust his ass every night plus he health 82 for 82 last year 34 for 34 this year. He is not the problem with this team.
 
I really think the FO misjudged his impact on the floor. I think they thought TT would be a smarter JJ Hickson with rim protecting ability. But, TT is just not athletic and can not really block shots.
 
I really think the FO misjudged his impact on the floor. I think they thought TT would be a smarter JJ Hickson with rim protecting ability. But, TT is just not athletic and can not really block shots.
there is more to playing PF than blocking shots and Blake type dunks these are highlight clip on ESPN not BB.
 

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