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Tristan Thompson

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there is more to playing PF than blocking shots and Blake type dunks these are highlight clip on ESPN not BB.

Disagree. Having a shot blocking presence that gets "ESPN blocks" is very intimidating to other team's guards. It changes how they play. No one is afraid to drive the ball to the paint when TT is in there.
 
I am confused as to how some will acknowledge his work ethic and development, but go on to say he may have reached his ceiling as a player. Has he? Maybe, but I highly doubt that.
 
TT is not the problem with the Cavs lets try GEE, Clark, Jack if we had 5 Player that put out like TT we would be a top 4 team in the east. Last five games of the other teams starting PF against TT 25 -62 39 reb, TT 24-56 54 reb, No he is not a super star player but he plays great D and bust his ass every night plus he health 82 for 82 last year 34 for 34 this year. He is not the problem with this team.

Thanks for this. Outplaying his position in rebounds and scoring efficiency. What's not to like? Being healthy is also underrated.

I agree that he doesn't block shots much, but that is because he stays on the floor and in position. Shot blocking is great if you have someone truly elite that will keep guards from driving, but a lot of times it gets you out of position. He was a shot blocker in college, and he specifically doesn't do it here on purpose. MB doesn't like it.

His post defense is underrated, his ability to stay in front of almost anyone is underrated. Saying he has no IQ is crazy. He makes smart plays every game. He is still a black hole, but I don't mind him taking some contested shots because he continues to get better around the rim and in traffic. I'd like him to jumpshoot more, but its a work in progress. The guy is an immovable object in the paint and is still getting stronger.

Again, thinking he is a finished product is insane. I can't believe it is the same thread 2.5 years later when the consensus was that he will never have a jump shot, never improve free throws. He has a post game now! He draws an incredible amount of fouls! He is not even getting all the calls he should! I am going to stop posting, it is like I am watching a different game.
 
On top of developing his skills, he stopped playing nice. And while he's not playing mean yet like Dion and maybe not as tenacious as Varejao or Dellavedova, the transition to hard nosed, lunch pail, basketball player is happening.
 
You say his defense is underrated, but I say it is overrated.

The Cavs are the worst team in the league when it comes to defending the restricted area. If Tristan could block shots in the NBA, he would. Ben Wallace, Z, and Shaq had no problem doing so under Mike Brown.

I agree he has improved a lot, but he still needs to improve even more to even get to the "3rd big on a contender" level. He still needs to develop a jumper, and improve his FT shooting. He has taken the right steps in both areas, but he needs to do even more. His footwork is still quite poor in multiple areas as well.

In terms of ppg and rpg, he probably has maxed out, or at least he is close to. That's not to say he's maxed out as a player though. The next step for him is becoming a more efficient player in attaining those stats.
 
To piggyback off of your point Czvosec, the comparison everyone makes is to a more athletic Andy, but I'm beginning to doubt if TT will ever be as good as Andy. Andy is nowhere near the athlete, but he's so naturally intelligent on the basketball court both on offense and defense and I think that part of his game doesn't get nearly enough credit. He's great at knowing the exact right type of screen to set, and he's one of the best bigs at directing offense from the high post alongside his knowledge of defensive positioning.

Obviously I haven't seen anything close to that level of BBIQ from TT, and I don't know if we ever will. I'm not sure how much of this will come with more experience when the game "slows down" for TT and he expands his skill set. For all I know he'll be even better than Andy at those areas later in his career. That said, I don't think it's a given to pencil him in as a better Andy based on what we've seen so far.

I don't remember Andy being as good his first three years as Tristan has been in his. I don't remember Andy being so good at screen or defense between 2004 and 2007 either. I certainly don't remember him directing the offense from the high post in any sort of impressive manner in his first three seasons.

Perhaps I am just mis-remembering, but I do see similar evaluations in a sport I follow much closer (football) where a young player is often compared to a great player and says player Y will never play as good as player X. Only they like to compare Player X in his 8th pro year while player Y is only in his 2nd.

Again, I'm not trying to say you are clearly wrong (I certainly could be as I said), and you do even say TT may be much better at all these things by the end, I just don't think Andy was those things you illustrate early on. He too had to develop into what he is now (and has been for the past three years).
 
You say his defense is underrated, but I say it is overrated.

The Cavs are the worst team in the league when it comes to defending the restricted area. If Tristan could block shots in the NBA, he would. Ben Wallace, Z, and Shaq had no problem doing so under Mike Brown.

I agree he has improved a lot, but he still needs to improve even more to even get to the "3rd big on a contender" level. He still needs to develop a jumper, and improve his FT shooting. He has taken the right steps in both areas, but he needs to do even more. His footwork is still quite poor in multiple areas as well.

In terms of ppg and rpg, he probably has maxed out, or at least he is close to. That's not to say he's maxed out as a player though. The next step for him is becoming a more efficient player in attaining those stats.
I disagree with him needing to improve more to even get to "3rd big on contender level" personally, I think he is a better player than Chris Anderson, Mahinmi, Nick Collison, Matt Bonner/Boris Diaw for example. In their respective roles he would look much better IMO.

I do wish I could disagree with him being close to maxed out in ppg and rpg though. It's seeming like 14/10 is what he'd max out to (not that that is bad, just not all-star level).
 
I disagree with him needing to improve more to even get to "3rd big on contender level" personally, I think he is a better player than Chris Anderson, Mahinmi, Nick Collison, Matt Bonner/Boris Diaw for example. In their roles he would look much better IMO.

I do wish I could disagree with him being close to maxed out in ppg and rpg though. It's seeming like 14/10 is what he'd max out to (not that that is bad, just not all-star level).

I don't consider those guys to be 3rd bigs, they are just back ups. When we were contending, Andy was a 3rd big. Odom on the Lakers was a 3rd big. It's the post player equivalency to a 6th man.

They are guys that could be entrenched as starters on lower level playoff teams, but instead are coming off the bench for contenders.
 
I don't consider those guys to be 3rd bigs, they are just back ups. When we were contending, Andy was a 3rd big. Odom on the Lakers was a 3rd big. It's the post player equivalency to a 6th man.

They are guys that could be entrenched as starters on lower level playoff teams, but instead are coming off the bench for contenders.
So the Heat, Pacers, Thunder, and Spurs don't have 3rd bigs is what you're saying? I'm not trying to be argumentative with this one for the record, I just want to be sure I understand.
 
So the Heat, Pacers, Thunder, and Spurs don't have 3rd bigs is what you're saying? I'm not trying to be argumentative with this one for the record, I just want to be sure I understand.

Out of their bench bigs, none of them are playing more than 20 mpg with the exception of Diaw. I would have to say no, at least not in the sense we are talking in regards to projecting Tristan.
 
Taj Gibson is a 3rd big.

I understand what you are saying Wreck. Compare Tristan to Taj and THAT is where he needs to be to really consider him a threat and a consistent contributor to a contender. Starter or backup.

I know the argument will be that Taj is older and has been playing longer, and yes he is, but Taj is still growing and adding to his game even as we speak.

There are limitations to Tristan that are NOT directly tied to his skill/drive/youth... and I think we need to respect that and put him in a position where we are utilizing that.

Tristan was developed as a post player/Center. Its obvious in his game. He is not comfortable facing up and spacing the floor. His natural tendency is to move the ball and set a screen whenever he gets it out there. He has been drilled up until now to get the ball to the little guys out there and get your ass on the boards/in post position, and that is how he looks most natural and effective playing.

Respect that and put him in a position to grow doing that.

He's a undersized center. No shame in that. In the right role, he can go around some centers and he can overpower some less physical centers who are purely faceup guys or are not yet strong enough to handle him.

But to keep trying to make him our PF is like putting a square peg into a round hole, considering what Brown's power forward needs to do on the offensive end to be most effective.
 
So the Heat, Pacers, Thunder, and Spurs don't have 3rd bigs is what you're saying? I'm not trying to be argumentative with this one for the record, I just want to be sure I understand.

Do the heat even have a 2nd big?
 
Taj Gibson is a 3rd big.

I understand what you are saying Wreck. Compare Tristan to Taj and THAT is where he needs to be to really consider him a threat and a consistent contributor to a contender. Starter or backup.

I know the argument will be that Taj is older and has been playing longer, and yes he is, but Taj is still growing and adding to his game even as we speak.

There are limitations to Tristan that are NOT directly tied to his skill/drive/youth... and I think we need to respect that and put him in a position where we are utilizing that.

Tristan was developed as a post player/Center. Its obvious in his game. He is not comfortable facing up and spacing the floor. His natural tendency is to move the ball and set a screen whenever he gets it out there. He has been drilled up until now to get the ball to the little guys out there and get your ass on the boards/in post position, and that is how he looks most natural and effective playing.

Respect that and put him in a position to grow doing that.

He's a undersized center. No shame in that. In the right role, he can go around some centers and he can overpower some less physical centers who are purely faceup guys or are not yet strong enough to handle him.

But to keep trying to make him our PF is like putting a square peg into a round hole, considering what Brown's power forward needs to do on the offensive end to be most effective.

Yes Taj is an awesome player. In my opinion he is better than Boozer. Not as good of a scorer, but he basically does everything else better. I would start him over Tristan at this point. He is also 28, came into the league at 24! The only reason he was drafted so low was he was so old. He has great great fundamentals. Just a solid do everything type. IMO if I were Chicago I would make Boozer my 6th man and start Taj. Let Boozer score off the bench and let Taj slow down pf's as Boozer is unable to do so.

So here is the player comparison per 36 of Taj and Tristan where Taj is 24 and Tristan is 22. Yeah it was Taj's first year, but I went to 20 Bulls games that year, and no one could believe how awesome he was out of the gate. He was a real bright spot in the 2nd year of Rose, and he was POLISHED from the get go. Tristan is still more raw than Taj was in his rookie year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...y1=2010&p2=thomptr01&y2=2014#per_minute::none

Tristan is finished developing considering he is 2 years younger and has very similar stats. Seriously, there are not many people that are bigger Taj Gibson fans than me, and I saw then in him then what I see in Tristan now. I honestly think Tristan will end up a better defender and scorer. I am biased and insane tho. If Tristan ends up being the 3rd big and Anthony is awesome as a starter, I really don't care. Right now tho he is the 2nd best big we have and so he starts.

My other issue with people saying Tristan is at his scoring peak is that no one gets him or Tyler or Andy the ball on the run. The Cavs are not a transition team. Only the guards get to score in transition. The bigs could easily score on the run at least a couple of more times a game, but no one is paying attention to them running the floor and calling for the ball. I am surprised they call for it anymore.
 
People are too hung up on who starts and points/game and blah blah blah

I don't care who is on the court when the ball is tossed into the air. The 5 best players on a team are rarely the 5 who start. I want to see line ups throughout a game where players are put in a position to succeed alongside other players who compliment their skill sets.

Look at per 36 numbers all you want. That doesn't tell you what role a person is playing while accumulating those numbers. Shooting percentages don't show you how the person is being defended. There is a lot that separates players like David West and Taj Gibson from guys like Amir Johnson and Kris Humphries that goes well beyond the numbers.
 

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