Tristan Thompson

[cavfanintexas]

25 and under guys on that list:
Hickson, Plumlee, Jordan, Love, Faried, Cousins, Henson, Monroe, Vucevic, Favors, Thompson, Sullinger, Valanciunas, Davis, Drummond

15/29 guys are 25 and under

Basically, on average, every team has a guy getting 25+ mpg that scores and rebounds at a similar or better rate than Tristan. I'm sure there are more out there that just aren't seeing the necessary minutes.

Tristan is a solid rotational player who clearly has a role in this league, but he's nothing special. His production is replaceable.

If he is so replaceable why have we not traded him, I'm sure there is some team that could use him. Heat,
Raptors, Wizards, Nets, Thunder I'm sure he could out perform Adams, Suns and this is just the starter not guys coming off he bench What does the Cavs insider think of TT. If he is so replaceable let trade him at draft time for mid to late 1sr rounder.

 

[Kizzle]

ok ok fuck stats for a second. If you think there is a player we can find sitting in FA that could come in and do what TT is doing at his age, then you are freaking blind and crazy. Im not saying hes not replaceable because I still don't think hes a starting PF on a playoff team in this league but replacing him isn't as easy as looking in FA like someone had the nerve to say. if it was a lot of teams would have signed a lot of bigs out of FA by now

 

[Kizzle]

should Bennett take TT's job? Hell no. Bennett has upside of a ach Randolph, so yes eventually it will probably be his time if he gets better every year, but TT is solid. But you need more than solid out of a playoff team starter.

 

[rabman_gold]

Only real different thing is that Tristan has a huge motor. That alone will force him to improve little by little. It's up to him how far he goes but also naturally see what he will do to make those steps. He's in a different era than Tyrone Hill and Michael Cage but he also never took shots with his right hand. I need to see what is decided in the next couple years because his growth will be very unusual I feel.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You call what I'm doing hating but I'm just being realistic...

I don't care about your numbers or statistics. I swear advanced stats are fucking up the game. The most reliable measure of a player's skill is the simple eye test. TT passes it, but my eyes also tell me that a player with his skillset is easily replaceable. Answer me this, what separates TT from a player like Reggie Evans? TT is more talented offensively, but that's about it. Even a player like Carl Landry, who is a way better player than TT. Do you know how much these players are being paid for their services this season? These guys could be had easily if we wanted them.

I see Bennett, a floor spacing, bruising big, and I see someone with more potential and someone whom is a more valued commodity leaguewide. How many player's with AB's skillset do you see leaguewide? A 6'7" PF with the potential to be an elite 2 way player. Take whatever numbers you want to back up your claims, I don't really care. Even with Bennett having a historically underwhelming rookie year, I'd rather take my chances with AB than TT going forward.

To reiterate, even if Bennett flops, which I highly doubt, we can get another player like TT. The NBA is literally littered with player's of his caliber (Jeff Adrien, John Henson, Kyle O'Quinn, Reggie Evans).

You're not bring realistic, you're blindly letting AB's draft selection determine his worth. AB has to have a historically significant jump to be an 'elite 2 way player.' He's not close to that right now, yet you're treating him like one. He's never been a plus-defender at the college or NBA level, he's never going to sniff elite on that end.

The numbers I'm throwing out come from actual NBA games, they aren't meaningless. You can choose to bury your head and disregard all numbers that you don't agree with, but that's a childish approach to an argument or debate.

And you've really backed up your impeccable eye for talent by comparing TT to Jeff Adrien and Kyle O'Quinn, two worthless bigs. Reggie Evans could match TT's rebounding numbers but he's a poor defensive and offensive player.

I'm not going to argue his production is irreplaceable, but that's such a poor argument to use when looking at young players on rookie deals. Dion is giving us a 15-3-3 on mediocre percentages, you think that's irreplaceable? It's not, but it's understood he's young and still improving. That same reasoning isn't applied to Tristan.

 

[CosmoKramer]

This is an absolutely clueless post. TS% tells you exactly how efficient a player is at scoring not about how they score. A guy like Shaq was always a very efficient scorer despite not having range beyond the paint.

As Dwreck pointed out players like Randolph teams will accept a lower TS% because they are able to put up big scoring numbers and their teams don't mind them shooting inefficient long twos to help keep the floor spread. If you are not a floor spacer AND you not putting up 20+pg then good offensive big are almost always high efficiency scorers which Tristan is not. Could he develop into one: nothing is impossible but he is not following a typical pattern by any stretch of players who turned into offensive threats

Thanks for completely ignoring my point, which is that I don't think TS% is the best way to compare players' efficiencies. I mockingly brought up those players because any shooting metric where TT comes out on top of LaMarcus Aldridge and Ersan Ilyasova is flawed.

And what typical pattern is he not following? He's improved his efficiency every year he's been in the league (while slowly expanding his range.) He has a much better assist rate than his rookie year, and he's always had a low turnover rate.

 

[Cashius X]

You're not bring realistic, you're blindly letting AB's draft selection determine his worth. AB has to have a historically significant jump to be an 'elite 2 way player.' He's not close to that right now, yet you're treating him like one. He's never been a plus-defender at the college or NBA level, he's never going to sniff elite on that end.

The numbers I'm throwing out come from actual NBA games, they aren't meaningless. You can choose to bury your head and disregard all numbers that you don't agree with, but that's a childish approach to an argument or debate.

And you've really backed up your impeccable eye for talent by comparing TT to Jeff Adrien and Kyle O'Quinn, two worthless bigs. Reggie Evans could match TT's rebounding numbers but he's a poor defensive and offensive player.

I'm not going to argue his production is irreplaceable, but that's such a poor argument to use when looking at young players on rookie deals. Dion is giving us a 15-3-3 on mediocre percentages, you think that's irreplaceable? It's not, but it's understood he's young and still improving. That same reasoning isn't applied to Tristan.

What? I could care less about draft position. All I look at is a player's skillset and how valuable said skillset is to a team. This is why I'd rather have Derrick Williams than TT, which you asked earlier, and also why I'm in favor of AB over TT in the future. If AB improves as we expect he'll be the much better player compared to TT, so why not take that chance? If we fail and it looks like Bennett isn't as good as we thought, replacement level bigs are always available for cheap on the FA market.

I don't disregard all numbers. Numbers are useful in certain instances. But when you give me numbers of a guy being force fed minutes then I'm not inclined to put much, if any, stock, into his stats. I watch TT. Every game. So I know how he gets those numbers. It's because he is always on the court. He primarily scores off putbacks. That's not to take away from him or anything. He's good at what he does. But if you simply judge TT by looking at his numbers you're gets a deluded, overrated image of the real player.

This whole conversation is really influenced by how you feel about TT though. Personally I feel like he's a product of the BIG minutes he gets. Does he produce? Yes. But who wouldn't when they're seeing 33 mpg? I don't think what he does is that special or worthy of the contract he'll likely seek. You can argue all you want that he's young and that bigs take a while to develop, but I just don't see a player like TT really growing much over the next couple years (skill-wise).

As for the bolded, thanks for completely dodging my remark. I compared TT to Jeff Adrien and Kyle O'Quinn because all three players are bruising PFs that rebound tenaciously and...do what else exactly? Nothing else about their game sticks out. This type of one dimensional player isn't hard to come by. If I'm missing another part of TT's game, then by all means let me know but I think I've got everything covered. Unless you argue that his "heart" and "hustle" separate him from the bunch :chuckles: Furthermore, it's laughable that you call Reggie Evans a poor defensive and offensive player, as if TT is neither. What, you think TT's offensive and defensive games are good?

Lastly, given the circumstances my argument is not poor. It's rational. We have AB who could become a star player. We have TT whom many project to become a solid rotational player. If we keep both and have them split time, neither will realize their full potential. So, take a chance on AB, and if it doesn't work out just sign a replacement level FA big. They're everywhere.

 

[Derek]

If he is so replaceable why have we not traded him, I'm sure there is some team that could use him. Heat,
Raptors, Wizards, Nets, Thunder I'm sure he could out perform Adams, Suns and this is just the starter not guys coming off he bench What does the Cavs insider think of TT. If he is so replaceable let trade him at draft time for mid to late 1sr rounder.

How does him not being traded mean he's not a replaceable commodity?

 

[cavfanintexas]

How does him not being traded mean he's not a replaceable commodity?

everybody is a Replaceable Commodity and I mean everybody. What was said is the he would be a ease replaceable player and that is not true to replace TT with a equal valued FA would cost us more than 5mil that he is going to be paid next year. Give me 5 FA PF this summer that would be of equal his value and be cheaper.

 

[Derek]

We're not talking about value right now. We're talking about the value of his next contract.

 

[cavfanintexas]

We're not talking about value right now. We're talking about the value of his next contract.

you are but most are not. and that is in 2015 -2016 season and his Qualifying Offer is under 7 mil if a team wants to pay him more then 9+ mil let them and do a S&T. and no I would not want the cavs to do the shit that some teams do and regret it the next year. But we have time on our side to see what he can do or what we can get for him if the FO does not see him as fit or Bennett out plays him than move him for assets player of draft picks, I want the team to be fun to watch and don't care how we get there. I fun team to watch is a hell of a lot better than we have now. Contending for a championship is something take a hell of a lot of luck for mid size town in cold weather.

 

[Cashius X]

you are but most are not. and that is in 2015 -2016 season and his Qualifying Offer is under 7 mil if a team wants to pay him more then 9+ mil let them and do a S&T. and no I would not want the cavs to do the shit that some teams do and regret it the next year. But we have time on our side to see what he can do or what we can get for him if the FO does not see him as fit or Bennett out plays him than move him for assets player of draft picks, I want the team to be fun to watch and don't care how we get there. I fun team to watch is a hell of a lot better than we have now. Contending for a championship is something take a hell of a lot of luck for mid size town in cold weather.

You'd rather watch a fun team than wait a little while and have a team that can actually contend? That's terrible.

And who is advocating trading him now? I don't see anyone doing that. Moreover, why would we trade him and then sign another PF Your post is everywhere...

 

[I'mWithDan]

25 and under guys on that list:
Hickson, Plumlee, Jordan, Love, Faried, Cousins, Henson, Monroe, Vucevic, Favors, Thompson, Sullinger, Valanciunas, Davis, Drummond

15/29 guys are 25 and under

Think you read that wrong. I didn't say 25 and under, I said under 25.

The reason it is far more impressive is he's one of what? maybe 5 players that are 22 years old and slotting as a 10+ per 36 rebounder?

His ultimate value will be determined over the next 24 months but people dismissing him as a throw away piece seem silly to me.

Going out and finding a 22 year old PF who can get you 30 double doubles is not the simple task everyone in this thread is making it out to be.

 

[CosmoKramer]

What? I could care less about draft position. All I look at is a player's skillset and how valuable said skillset is to a team. This is why I'd rather have Derrick Williams than TT, which you asked earlier, and also why I'm in favor of AB over TT in the future. If AB improves as we expect he'll be the much better player compared to TT, so why not take that chance? If we fail and it looks like Bennett isn't as good as we thought, replacement level bigs are always available for cheap on the FA market.

I don't disregard all numbers. Numbers are useful in certain instances. But when you give me numbers of a guy being force fed minutes then I'm not inclined to put much, if any, stock, into his stats. I watch TT. Every game. So I know how he gets those numbers. It's because he is always on the court. He primarily scores off putbacks. That's not to take away from him or anything. He's good at what he does. But if you simply judge TT by looking at his numbers you're gets a deluded, overrated image of the real player.

This whole conversation is really influenced by how you feel about TT though. Personally I feel like he's a product of the BIG minutes he gets. Does he produce? Yes. But who wouldn't when they're seeing 33 mpg? I don't think what he does is that special or worthy of the contract he'll likely seek. You can argue all you want that he's young and that bigs take a while to develop, but I just don't see a player like TT really growing much over the next couple years (skill-wise).

As for the bolded, thanks for completely dodging my remark. I compared TT to Jeff Adrien and Kyle O'Quinn because all three players are bruising PFs that rebound tenaciously and...do what else exactly? Nothing else about their game sticks out. This type of one dimensional player isn't hard to come by. If I'm missing another part of TT's game, then by all means let me know but I think I've got everything covered. Unless you argue that his "heart" and "hustle" separate him from the bunch :chuckles: Furthermore, it's laughable that you call Reggie Evans a poor defensive and offensive player, as if TT is neither. What, you think TT's offensive and defensive games are good?

Lastly, given the circumstances my argument is not poor. It's rational. We have AB who could become a star player. We have TT whom many project to become a solid rotational player. If we keep both and have them split time, neither will realize their full potential. So, take a chance on AB, and if it doesn't work out just sign a replacement level FA big. They're everywhere.

You're WAY over valuing bigs that can shoot. It's a single part of their game, an aspect I'd argue is far less important than their inside scoring, rebounding, or defensive capabilities. You can pick up shooting bigs just as easily as rebounders, as proven by us getting Hawes for next to nothing. The Bobcats signed a power forward last year for peanuts in Anthony Tolliver that's leading the league in 3 point shooting %. A shooting skill set in bigs is not nearly as valuable as you think it is.

Tristan is an elite rebounder, bringing up a couple bench players because they rebound well too doesn't prove how replaceable he is. When you combine that rebounding with average (but improving) offense and good defense you get the solid all-around player Tristan is today, something Reggie Evans and Jeff Adrien have no reasonable shot of ever matching.

I find it puzzling you don't see continued growth in Tristan. He's improved every year he's been here, yet you don't view that as sustainable? On the flip side, AB has shown a less than ideal motor so far, yet his improvement is certain and goes unquestioned?

I don't buy the need to trade one right now, I think we're at least a year away from that decision. We already took a chance drafting AB, we don't need to double down on that bet by moving a young, viable starting power forward before we even know what we have in AB.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You'd rather watch a fun team than wait a little while and have a team that can actually contend? That's terrible.

And who is advocating trading him now? I don't see anyone doing that. Moreover, why would we trade him and then sign another PF Your post is everywhere...

Um, you're the one advocating trading him. You're also the one using Kyle O'Quinn and Reggie Evans as examples that TT is easily replaceable.