Tristan Thompson

[Pioneer10]

Thanks for completely ignoring my point, which is that I don't think TS% is the best way to compare players' efficiencies. I mockingly brought up those players because any shooting metric where TT comes out on top of LaMarcus Aldridge and Ersan Ilyasova is flawed.

And what typical pattern is he not following? He's improved his efficiency every year he's been in the league (while slowly expanding his range.) He has a much better assist rate than his rookie year, and he's always had a low turnover rate.

Sorry TS% is about as an accurate measure as you're going to get for efficiency in terms of scoring. Efficiency does not equal everything a player brings to the table as Aldridge and Randolph are good players despite low efficiency. In fact they'd be even more valuable if they didn't shoot so many long two's. You're fixation on Ilyasova who has played like crap like this year shows nothing wrong with the stat at all

With regards to Tristan, his TS% when up from a pedestrian .516 to a .519: for an improvement of a whopping .003%. He's scoring went up a whole 0.4 more ppg this year. At this rate, Lebron's kid will be in the NBA by the time he gets to be league average for PF's in terms of efficiency while also giving you average to below average points/minute.

 

[Nathan S]

Offensive rebounding isn't the most stylish way to be an efficient offensive player, but you can't ignore it when talking about Tristan. There are benefits to having a PF who spends a lot of time in the paint.

 

[Cashius X]

Um, you're the one advocating trading him. You're also the one using Kyle O'Quinn and Reggie Evans as examples that TT is easily replaceable.

Who is advocating trading him now? Re-read my posts. I never said we should trade him now or even this summer. All I'm saying is that I don't see him being here long-term because we just drafted AB. TT will be up for an extension next offseason and I can't see us committing to him long-term while we have another PF on the roster with way more upside. It's not hard to fucking understand. The fact that we're still talking about this is ridiculous. I'd think this is common knowledge...

And the only thing we'll miss about TT when/if he's gone is his rebounding which is replaceable. For all the talk of him being a good defender, he's gotten lit up plenty of times this year. A 6'9" PF who rebounds well, plays decent defense, and has a high motor isn't hard to find.

 

[Derek]

Think you read that wrong. I didn't say 25 and under, I said under 25.

The reason it is far more impressive is he's one of what? maybe 5 players that are 22 years old and slotting as a 10+ per 36 rebounder?

His ultimate value will be determined over the next 24 months but people dismissing him as a throw away piece seem silly to me.

Going out and finding a 22 year old PF who can get you 30 double doubles is not the simple task everyone in this thread is making it out to be.

Ok... There are 11 guys UNDER 25

I'm sure there are plenty of 22 year olds that are capable, but don't get enough minutes. Tristan's production is that of a journeyman big. There are a lot of guys out there that would give us 30 double doubles if we gave them Tristan's minutes.

 

[PepsiRacer4]

People want him gone so we can get Love because everyone believes we will. That way we can all bitch when he plays less defense than Jack and Kyrie combined :chuckles:

 

[CosmoKramer]

Sorry TS% is about as an accurate measure as you're going to get for efficiency in terms of scoring. Efficiency does not equal everything a player brings to the table as Aldridge and Randolph are good players despite low efficiency. In fact they'd be even more valuable if they didn't shoot so many long two's. You're fixation on Ilyasova who has played like crap like this year shows nothing wrong with the stat at all

With regards to Tristan, his TS% when up from a pedestrian .516 to a .519: for an improvement of a whopping .003%. He's scoring went up a whole 0.4 more ppg this year. At this rate, Lebron's kid will be in the NBA by the time he gets to be league average for PF's in terms of efficiency while also giving you average to below average points/minute.

Another swing and a miss.

For the last time, using TS% to determine efficiency is fine, it gets messy when trying to compare different players by it. I made a point about David Lee and Al Horford putting up comparable raw numbers to TT at this stage in their careers, you claimed it wasn't a good comparison and proceeded to compare those players by TS%.

I think per game numbers alone paint a more accurate player comparison than TS%, which is why I mockingly drew a conclusion that TT is more efficient than a couple of all stars.

 

[CosmoKramer]

For the record, if we could trade TT for a top 20 pick in this draft I'd do that in a heartbeat. Steal.

For the record, did you already forget saying this?

 

[Cashius X]

For the record, did you already forget saying this?

That's wishful thinking. I'm pretty sure I was cosigning on what someone else said earlier in the thread.

But please, continue to take more of my posts out of context.

 

[Pioneer10]

Another swing and a miss.

For the last time, using TS% to determine efficiency is fine, it gets messy when trying to compare different players by it. I made a point about David Lee and Al Horford putting up comparable raw numbers to TT at this stage in their careers, you claimed it wasn't a good comparison and proceeded to compare those players by TS%.

I think per game numbers alone paint a more accurate player comparison than TS%, which is why I mockingly drew a conclusion that TT is more efficient than a couple of all stars.

This doesn't make any sense. Per game numbers are impacted by minutes played, pace, etc. You are really reaching and trying to hide it with sarcasm.

 

[CosmoKramer]

This doesn't make any sense. Per game numbers are impacted by minutes played, pace, etc. You are really reaching and trying to hide it with sarcasm.

How am I reaching? You took offense to the Lee/Horford comparisons because the 3 players didn't have similar TS%, I still think the 3 had very similar second seasons (of significant playing time) in the league when you look at the ALL the numbers.

David Lee -
age 23: 29.8 minutes, 10.7 points (60.0 FG%, 81.5 FT%, 60.7 TS%), 10.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.2 stocks (blocks + steals)
age 24: 29.1 minutes, 10.8 points (55.2 FG%, 81.9 FT%, 65.2 TS%), 8.9 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.1 stocks
Al Horford
age 21: 31.4 minutes, 10.1 points (49.9 FG%, 73.1 FT%, 53.9 TS%), 9.7 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.6 stocks
age 22: 33.5 minutes, 11.5 points (52.5 FG%, 72.7 FT%, 56.5 TS%), 9.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2.2 stocks
Tristan Thompson
age 21: 31.3 minutes, 11.7 points (48.8 FG%, 60.8 FT%, 51.6 TS%), 9.4 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 1.8 stocks
age 22: 33.0 minutes, 12.1 points (47.6 FG%, 66.7 FT%, 51.9 TS%), 9.5 rebounds, .9 assists, .9 stocks

Considering the three of them together combined for a whopping 4 three point attempts all year (with TT having 3 of the 4) their TS% boils down to FT & FG attempts combined. It's pretty obvious the reason Lee/Horford have much higher TS% is their success at the free throw line. TT has raised his own FT% by 5 points each year he's been in the league, that's pretty impressive when you take into fact he switched his fucking shooting hand last year.

 

[Pioneer10]

You don't even realize what you're typing. Tristan FG% has dropped this year. Both of Lee and Horford shot easily over 50% from the field which Tristan has never done. Even if Tristan shot the same FT% his TS% would be significantly lower then them unless he got the line at a much higher rate. Tristan tends to be able to get to the line at a good level but only about 1 more a game then Lee/Horford which is not nearly enough to make up the difference when those two guys are shooting at a minimum 5% better then him from the field

His FG% is a direct reflection that Tristan still doesn't have much range but also that he is not a good finisher inside. Takes too much time to gather, has difficulty going up with one hand. Tristan for the shots he does take should have a much higher FG% then he does. Really don't know what more to point if you really think Tristan is on the same trajectory as Lee and Horford on offense. Doesn't mean Tristan doesn't have value: his offense is no worse then Lee's attempts at defense but if he becomes a force on offense it would be something that is hard to see in his stats

 

[czvo]

I think you cant discount what TT has done from his rookie year to now, based solely on the level of teammates he has had. As this team starts to add more shooters, he will have more room to operate in the paint, and can focus on his rebounding and energy. The kid switched shooting hands less then a year ago, and has started to show signs that it will work. He is making FT at a good clip, and once he gains confidence in the mid-range shot, it will open up his game. To think a player cannot improve at the age of 22, and less then 1 year into a complete overhaul of his shot is insane. I really think next year is his make or break year.

I found this interesting in games we have won this year, he is averaging:

34.1 MPG .534 FG% 11.5 RPG 1.3 APG 0.5 BPG 14.6 PPG

Games we have lost:

32.1 MPG .434 FG% 8.4 RPG .8 APG 0.3 BPG 10.7 PPG

You know, posters keep point out these player stats in wins vs. losses (several times in Kyrie's thread), but I'm not really sure what it proves. Of course his numbers are better in a win. He plays a significant role on this team, and if he doesn't play well, then the team is going to struggle. What I want to see are his numbers playoff teams/non-playoff teams.

All these current numbers show is that Tristan is important to the Cavs in the team's current state. Doesn't mean another player couldn't have a bigger impact.

 

[czvo]

.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Tristan FG% has dropped this year.

A slight drop in FG% is not a big deal, David Lee's actually dropped for 5 consecutive seasons after posting that 60% in his first year as a PF. TD, Pau Gasol, and Chris Webber all saw their FG% drop after their rookie years but that didn't preclude them from successful careers. You can't base anything off a 12 point difference in Tristan's.

Tristan is at 47% from the field for his career, we're not talking about a lost cause on the offensive end. I don't ever see TT getting up to 20 points a game like David Lee did but I could see him getting up to 17-18 like Horford.

 

[Derek]

17-18 points/game for Tristan!? That would take an ungodly amount of improvement in his game unless you plan on us sucking forever and him shooting 40% from the field.