Tristan Thompson

[DELONTEizDad]

Just re-read a couple of my posts and think I could be being unjustly hard on TT for a bad game.

He is averaging 12 and 9.4 despite periodically looking like crap and changing his shooting hand in the offseason.

He's only 23 so I could see his ceiling around 20 and 12-ish in a couple years with a lot more work and experience.

Bare minimum he has to be able to convert the easy points thougha, he's not only hurting himself but the whole team and offense. Fucking up that gimme shit on the regular is just a gigantic kick in the nuts.

If he gets an offensive move or two and a little more comfortable shooting the ball- watch out.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Let me put it this way...

10M/year would put TT right between Paul Millsap and Tim Duncan among PFs in terms of salary.

8M/year would put TT right between Taj Gibson and Ryan Anderson among PFs in terms of salary.

6M/year would put TT right between Chuck Hayes and Channing Frye among PFs in terms of salary (excluding Derrick Favors, who's on a rookie contract).

Call me crazy...but 6, maybe 7M/year seems like the most he could get in free agency, with 8M possible only with a true breakout season next year.

Oh, and DX has six PFs slotted in the lottery this year...so six teams that might have been in the market for a moderately promising young big like TT will fill that hole in the draft.

I doubt any of those players were restricted free agents as young as TT when they signed those deals. I think it's more appropriate to look at the 4/49 million dollar Favors just signed after his rookie deal, similar draft position/production to TT. Teams pay a lot more if players hit the market under 25.

It should be noted, Tim Duncan at 10.3 million is only the 14th highest paid PF. 10 million a year to TT doesn't seem so foolish when you see Kris Humphries (12 million) and Andrea Bargnani (10.7 million) making even more. Let's not forget Charlie Villanueva is still making 8.3 million this year.

It's not really a beneficial debate going on though, we just have to wait and see how it unfolds. I'm not trying to argue TT is worth a 10 million a year contract, I'm arguing that's what he's going to get. I'll be closely monitoring Greg Monroe's situation this summer for hints on what the Cavs could end up doing. Monroe and his agent want the max, it's going to be interesting to see if they can find a compromise or he gets traded.

 

[Derek]

Why is this such a bad thing? Hawes is over 7 foot, I don't mind teams immediately switching their PFs onto him and giving our better offensive big a size advantage. It really didn't work for the Warriors last night, Hawes went for 22-13. David Lee is somehow a top 10 big defending the rim, GS sending him out (and away from the one area on the court he defends well) to check Hawes had the same spacing effect as Bogut having to leave the paint. TT struggled with his shot against the longer player all night, but he also drew a couple fouls in less than a minute when they gave him the ball in space and let him attack.

Hawes wasn't exactly overly efficient last night, he was solid, and his best moments came when Tristan was not on the floor with him. David Lee is not good at defending the rim, I don't care what stats you have that say otherwise. Bogut, however, is a premier defender in the paint. It would be far more advantageous for us to be able to pull Bogut out of the paint.

Relying on Hawes shooting jump shots over Lee because he can't beat him off the dribble, like he probably could with Bogut, is not a recipe for success.

Tristan had a crap night, he's not a crap player, but he had a crap night, we don't need to sugar coat anything. There's nothing wrong with Tristan as a player, he has a role that is very important, and needed on every good team. The problems arise when he's asked to play outside of that role, which happens too often on a poor team.

I think people that are thinking Tristan's improvements from here on out will result in greater volume from a production standpoint will end up disappointed. I don't see Tristan ever being more than a 10-12 points 9-10 rebounds guy in starters minutes. Where his improvements will show the most are in his efficiency, his defense, and this team's win total.

 

[Adam]

Just re-read a couple of my posts and think I could be being unjustly hard on TT for a bad game.

He is averaging 12 and 9.4 despite periodically looking like crap and changing his shooting hand in the offseason.

He's only 23 so I could see his ceiling around 20 and 12-ish in a couple years with a lot more work and experience.

Bare minimum he has to be able to convert the easy points thougha, he's not only hurting himself but the whole team and offense. Fucking up that gimme shit on the regular is just a gigantic kick in the nuts.

If he gets an offensive move or two and a little more comfortable shooting the ball- watch out.

I think even with a jumper TT would never be a go to scorer. He just has half a game. He careers to the basket in unpredictable ways and without care, yet cant explode to finish. If your going to be a guy who challenges the bigs you better be able to climb the ladder or have a soft touch. He appears to lack both. To be a 20ppg scorer you really need to be able to score in a number of ways,or one way really well (eg griffin). He described as a defensive player, and one on one he does a great job, but he doesn't change a game like Andy

I like TT but in terms of how he plays he has not made improvements in his strengths, which you would expect high ceiling players to do naturally. I hope im wrong but hes a utility big,elite rebounder who will catch and finish under the basket 60% of the time. He should come off the bench to light a fire if we want to be a winning ball club.


I'm more than happy to eat crow, but i have been disappointed watching him this season, especially since the all star break, i was hoping for more growth

 

[CosmoKramer]

Hawes wasn't exactly overly efficient last night, he was solid, and his best moments came when Tristan was not on the floor with him. David Lee is not good at defending the rim, I don't care what stats you have that say otherwise. Bogut, however, is a premier defender in the paint. It would be far more advantageous for us to be able to pull Bogut out of the paint.

Relying on Hawes shooting jump shots over Lee because he can't beat him off the dribble, like he probably could with Bogut, is not a recipe for success.

Should have put by FG% next to the top 10 by Lee, in no way is he a top 10 rim protector. My point was that even drawing out just one Golden State big provided the spacing we needed, regardless of which. I'll gladly accept when teams want to give our 49% three point shooter a 3 inch height advantage to shoot over.

How can you say we can't rely on Hawes' shooting? He's been great with us, we brought him in for the very reason of relying on his jump shot. He might not have been "overly efficient" last night but 8/18 shooting for 22-13 is great production for a starting center.

Tristan had a crap night, he's not a crap player, but he had a crap night, we don't need to sugar coat anything. There's nothing wrong with Tristan as a player, he has a role that is very important, and needed on every good team. The problems arise when he's asked to play outside of that role, which happens too often on a poor team.

I think people that are thinking Tristan's improvements from here on out will result in greater volume from a production standpoint will end up disappointed. I don't see Tristan ever being more than a 10-12 points 9-10 rebounds guy in starters minutes. Where his improvements will show the most are in his efficiency, his defense, and this team's win total.

I didn't sugarcoat his game last night, I said he shot poorly and drew a couple fouls. He looked fucking terrible in the first half, he at least came out and played a significantly better second half (he did this for the Knicks game too, hopefully it's not a trend.)

That's fine if you don't see Tristan going past 12-10 a night- You've consistently kept to that opinion, that his best role moving forward would be similar to Dale Davis on those late 90's Pacers. To me, that's his floor, and I think his shooting is going to be the determining factor on whether or not he reaches what I view his ceiling (17/18 points-12 boards-55 FG%). Where'd that confident 18 footer go he had at the beginning of the year? I'd settle for a 12 footer at this point, he just needs to hurt teams when they start ignoring him.

 

[Derek]

Should have put by FG% next to the top 10 by Lee, in no way is he a top 10 rim protector. My point was that even drawing out just one Golden State big provided the spacing we needed, regardless of which. I'll gladly accept when teams want to give our 49% three point shooter a 3 inch height advantage to shoot over.

How can you say we can't rely on Hawes' shooting? He's been great with us, we brought him in for the very reason of relying on his jump shot. He might not have been "overly efficient" last night but 8/18 shooting for 22-13 is great production for a starting center.



I didn't sugarcoat his game last night, I said he shot poorly and drew a couple fouls. He looked fucking terrible in the first half, he at least came out and played a significantly better second half (he did this for the Knicks game too, hopefully it's not a trend.)

That's fine if you don't see Tristan going past 12-10 a night- You've consistently kept to that opinion, that his best role moving forward would be similar to Dale Davis on those late 90's Pacers. To me, that's his floor, and I think his shooting is going to be the determining factor on whether or not he reaches what I view his ceiling (17/18 points-12 boards-55 FG%). Where'd that confident 18 footer go he had at the beginning of the year? I'd settle for a 12 footer at this point, he just needs to hurt teams when they start ignoring him.

You can still get a hand in their face with a 3 inch height advantage which was seen by his 1-7 from behind the arc last night. You never want to have to rely on guys making jumpers. That cross match hurt us last night, and it will continue to be a problem.

How can Dale Davis be Tristan's floor when he's not even at that level yet as a player? Yes, he showed some confidence in taking an 18 footer in the preseason, but he never really showed he could make it consistently. He just doesn't have much feel for the game. I commend him for coming as far as he has because nothing about the game of basketball seems to come naturally to him.

 

[DatDudeZ3]

Tristan is so frustrating to watch but at the same time he is valuable to us, the energy he brings and the rebounding, and his defense is pretty solid. The most frustrating thing is when Kyrie/Dion/Jack penetrate and TT's man rotates to stop the guard penetrating and then they drop it off to TT and he can't finish in time before the defender recovers and either blocks TT or fouls him. It's painful watching Tristan trying to finish around the rim, it's like he's trying to get a 10 pound medicine ball up to the rim with how slow he gets it up there. I honestly feel Bennett would be converting about 75% of these wide open looks Tristan gets right around the rim.

That being said, Tristan brings positive things to the team and he's the type of player you need off the bench on a good team. However... If he could develop the 15 foot jumper this off-season, then I would like to see how he plays before deeming him a bench player for the rest of his career. If he could develop a decent mid-range jumper this off-season, I could see him averaging 13-15 points a game if starting. I'm going to give TT one more off-season and the first half of next season before judging his long-term value/role.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You can still get a hand in their face with a 3 inch height advantage which was seen by his 1-7 from behind the arc last night. You never want to have to rely on guys making jumpers. That cross match hurt us last night, and it will continue to be a problem.

1-7 behind the arc, 7-11 on everything else in a surprising Cavs win. Agree to disagree for now, let's revisit it after a few more games.

And welcome to the 2013-14 Cleveland Cavaliers, our offense completely relies on jump shooting.

How can he be Tristan's floor when he's not even at that level yet as a player? Yes, he showed some confidence in taking an 18 footer in the preseason, but he never really showed he could make it consistently. He just doesn't have much feel for the game. I commend him for coming as far as he has because nothing about the game of basketball seems to come naturally to him.

How can you argue Dale Davis isn't TT's floor? Tristan's been wildly more productive as a young player, he scored more points in his second season (957) than Dale Davis did in his career best year (832 in '96-'97). If TT doesn't make any improvements from here on out (which is preposterous to assume, he's only 23) he'd still have a better career than Dale Davis. That's why I use him as a floor.

 

[Derek]

1-7 behind the arc, 7-11 on everything else in a surprising Cavs win. Agree to disagree for now, let's revisit it after a few more games.

And welcome to the 2013-14 Cleveland Cavaliers, our offense completely relies on jump shooting.

That's not a good thing, which is what I was pointing out

How can you argue Dale Davis isn't TT's floor? Tristan's been wildly more productive as a young player, he scored more points in his second season (957) than Dale Davis did in his career best year (832 in '96-'97). If TT doesn't make any improvements from here on out (which is preposterous to assume, he's only 23) he'd still have a better career than Dale Davis. That's why I use him as a floor.

Tristan has scored more points, with less efficiency, because he's gotten big minutes on crappy teams. Tristan still has some improving to do to even be the same caliber player as Dale Davis. The only thing Tristan has on Davis is FT shooting.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

I think even with a jumper TT would never be a go to scorer. He just has half a game. He careers to the basket in unpredictable ways and without care, yet cant explode to finish. If your going to be a guy who challenges the bigs you better be able to climb the ladder or have a soft touch. He appears to lack both. To be a 20ppg scorer you really need to be able to score in a number of ways,or one way really well (eg griffin). He described as a defensive player, and one on one he does a great job, but he doesn't change a game like Andy

I like TT but in terms of how he plays he has not made improvements in his strengths, which you would expect high ceiling players to do naturally. I hope im wrong but hes a utility big,elite rebounder who will catch and finish under the basket 60% of the time. He should come off the bench to light a fire if we want to be a winning ball club.


I'm more than happy to eat crow, but i have been disappointed watching him this season, especially since the all star break, i was hoping for more growth

As far as "growth" averaging more points this year after he switched shooting hands is pretty good. I think a lot of people are overlooking this.

I'm kind of giving him a pass and a return to zero sort of.

It's unprecedented but I'd imagine there's a lot of room for growth when someone changes shooting hands with different moves and everything, etc...

Unscientifically if he just hit the "gimmes" he should probably average 1-3 points more per game, let alone if he were to start hitting an outside shot or develop a move or two maybe.

 

[mAo_mAo]

As far as "growth" averaging more points this year after he switched shooting hands is pretty good. I think a lot of people are overlooking this.

I'm kind of giving him a pass and a return to zero sort of.

It's unprecedented but I'd imagine there's a lot of room for growth when someone changes shooting hands with different moves and everything, etc...

Unscientifically if he just hit the "gimmes" he should probably average 1-3 points more per game, let alone if he were to start hitting an outside shot or develop a move or two maybe.

The problem with this is that he only switched shooting hands in his jumpshots but basically he started using his right in almost every shot he took last year.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

The problem with this is that he only switched shooting hands in his jumpshots but basically he started using his right in almost every shot he took last year.

If you are a pro I'd imagine any change like that is pretty drastic and would be disruptive and take some time to get used to and comfortable with in total.

 

[Nathan S]

I doubt any of those players were restricted free agents as young as TT when they signed those deals. I think it's more appropriate to look at the 4/49 million dollar Favors just signed after his rookie deal, similar draft position/production to TT. Teams pay a lot more if players hit the market under 25.

Last year (i.e. prior to his extension) Favors was just 21 years old and averaged 15 points, 11 boards, 1.6 steals and 2.6 blocks per 36. Tristan is a year and a half older than Favors was, and he's averaging 13 points, 10 boards, 0.5 steals and 0.5 blocks per 36. Perhaps even more importantly, he has legit center size at a shade over 6'10" with a 7'4" wingspan and a 9'2" reach. From a production standpoint, an upside standpoint, and a literal standpoint Favors was head and shoulders above TT going into his extension.

It should be noted, Tim Duncan at 10.3 million is only the 14th highest paid PF. 10 million a year to TT doesn't seem so foolish when you see Kris Humphries (12 million) and Andrea Bargnani (10.7 million) making even more. Let's not forget Charlie Villanueva is still making 8.3 million this year.

Wait...Humphries, Bargnani, and Charlie V all have incredibly foolish contracts. Under no circumstances should we use contracts like that as a barometer for what we should pay our players.

It's not really a beneficial debate going on though, we just have to wait and see how it unfolds. I'm not trying to argue TT is worth a 10 million a year contract, I'm arguing that's what he's going to get. I'll be closely monitoring Greg Monroe's situation this summer for hints on what the Cavs could end up doing. Monroe and his agent want the max, it's going to be interesting to see if they can find a compromise or he gets traded.

Sure, we can agree to disagree. As for Greg Monroe, teams are more easily fooled into overpaying a guy with a smooth offensive game (see: Bargnani, Charlie V) than a hustle guy like TT. Personally I'd much rather see TT break out and overpay slightly to keep him at 10M/year than watch him stagnate and keep him for 6M/year.

 

[Earl]

The problem with this is that he only switched shooting hands in his jumpshots but basically he started using his right in almost every shot he took last year.

Exactly. The guy basically doesn't use his left hand at all, and that's been since at least the start of last season.

 

[Nphan]

Something i noticed about Thompson is he can't launch off one leg. He is one of them 2 legs jumper unlike Bennett who can explode with either leg. This also explains why he gets blocked so much. He needs to gather himself and get both of his legs in position to explode up. I'm surprised Grant didn't see this before drafting him.