Tristan Thompson

[rabman_gold]

... The only way he can prove people wrong is by evolving as a big, developing his jump shot and bringing up his defensive awareness. I still like him as a big and hope he finds what he's looking for. It's rare to find bigs with as big a motor as him. But his other traits are hurting him. At least we know that a motor alone can actually bring victories: His numerous tip ins before the final buzzer has forced overtime once or twice.

 

[jason436]

I like Tristan and I think he can still improve but I get the feeling some team is going to offer him more money than he should get and I don't want to be that team. He's not going to be a big time scorer but he could be a good fit on the right team.

I know AB had a rough rookie season but he brings some skills that not many PFs do. Factor that in with the fact that he's on his rookie contract and Tristan is nearing the end of his and I can see the Cavaliers trying to move Tristan in the near future.

 

[CosmoKramer]

How's this for a stat. Our team record is 9-30 in games where TT grabs less than 10 rebounds. Correct me if I'm wrong but that makes our winning percentage 23.1% which would make us the 2nd worse team in the league (slightly behind Philly) :chuckles:.

Wow. You're wrong. He finished with 9 or fewer rebounds in 40 games, for a record of 10-30 and a .250 winning percentage. Numbers just aren't your strong suit Blue, but hey, keep trying! Always brings a laugh out of me. Helps to explain why advanced stats are disliked so much, the basic ones are hard enough for some people.

Go back to your original post Blue. You claimed it was glaring from my own post that we were fucked when Tristan had a bad rebounding night. That conclusion shouldn't have been made because I didn't make any claims about good/bad rebounding performances at all, just double-doubles. While all double-doubles are good rebounding games, not all good rebounding games are double-doubles. That's the point you're missing by a mile.

In response to your incorrect numbers (great job, again) why would you include games when he grabbed 7-8-9 boards? That's not a bad rebounding night. That's still above-average production; it would still rank him among the top-10 rebounders for his position.

In games where he grabbed 6 or fewer rebounds (poor rebounding production) the Cavs finished 5-13 for a .278 winning percentage. That's bad, but it's not in the stratosphere of saying we're fucked without those boards. Besides, I'm hardly worried about something that happens so rarely. By my metric Tristan finished with a poor rebounding night in less than a quarter of the season.

If you're happy with his production by comparing it to an overweight AB coming off shoulder surgery, more power to you.

....this again? Please stop imagining slights against AB, I didn't mention him once in my posts. TT supporters are not the ones that always turn these discussions in AB vs TT, just like TT haters are the ones always bringing up the hand switch.

He's lucky he's pretty much the only viable PF on the team for 3 years which resulted in him getting heavy minutes and inflating his stats.

 

[CosmoKramer]

So now people are convincing themselves he is a corner stone piece?

Have fun finding a single post where myself or any TT supporter has recently called TT a cornerstone piece. Kyrie and Dion are the only players on the team worthy of being built around, they're our cornerstone pieces. You can be in favor of retaining a player without them being a cornerstone piece, and Tristan looks like he'll have a place in this league for a long time. It's about retaining an asset and letting our young players fully develop, let's not forget TT's is still on his rookie deal.

It just amazes me how much people romanticize a roster that went 16 games under. We have had 4 years of misery, but you would think there are 5 all stars on this team lead by a hall of fame coach the way some posters write, it is truly amazing. TT is an average NBA player.

16 games under? You don't just minus wins from losses to get that number, 41 wins gives you a .500 winning percentage. We were 8 games under. It amazes me I just had to spell that out.

I saw an extremely young team weighted down by an 7 foot anchor in the beginning of the year grow into a dangerous team by the end of the season. There was positive signs to be seen, you just choose to dwell on the fact we missed the playoffs and label the entire system a failure because of it. We're well positioned to come out much stronger under MB next year like Toronto and Washington were going into this year. Washington's actually a great example, once Wall returned they played around .500 ball after starting one of the worst in the league last year.

There are TT's in the draft by the handful every year. There is nothing special about him, nothing.

Please. Special abilities are rare as is, but if you don't think Tristan possesses at least one elite skill in rebounding we've been watching a different player.

The 2014 draft class is the best in years, can you guess how many top-30 projected picks averaged a 13-8 with 2.4 blocks and 1.1 steals like TT did his lone year in college? None. Sure there are players similar to TT every year, it's just they get drafted early. Comparable prospects to TT include Aaron Gordon and Noah Vonleh, both projected lottery picks.

And I just proved how impactful a double-double from TT can go into helping the Cavs win games. He finished tied for 5th in the league among PFs this season after finishing 7th the previous season. He's 23, it's not like he's done improving or even near his peak years. That number is only going up.

There are posters that are willing to pay him very good money, have him be our future starting PF and give him major minutes for the next 4-5 years. I would say that qualifies as a corner stone.

Another vague term, very good money isn't the right phrasing here. Kyrie Irving is getting very good money. He's going to become one of the highest paid PGs in the league if he signs his extension. TT won't even be in the top-10 of PFs making $10 million a year, which is my estimation of his next contract.

A reasonable estimate of TT's contract extension will be 4 years and between $32-48 million. I'd be much happier if we could sign him for $8 million a year, but I think him and his agents would be willing to wait until free agency to try and get closer to that $48 million. Lloyd's already reported he wants Derrick Favors money (4 years - $49 million), but even I see that as an overpay. I've already stated if he wants that kinda money let him play out his final year without an extension.

The debate has been people saying he is average, vs people saying he is above average already with a chance to get much better.

Wow, is this a joke? I'd sure like to see this debate you're speaking off. I've seen Tristan compared to Henry Sims, Kevin Jones, and a fucking lawnmower. Two completely non-average players, and one inanimate object. Where you not around for those couple pages where a "poor man's Joel Anthony" comparison was actually defended?

There were people convinced he could possibly be an all star after a few pre season games. If you think he has a chance to be an all star and you are willing to pay him a large contract (that takes up a decent part of your cap space)- that is pretty close to cornerstone.

Again, just because a player is retained past his rookie contract doesn't make him a cornerstone. I might be one of the few that thinks Tristan could sneak into an All-Star game in the future, [Mo Williams, Anthony Mason, Jamaal Magloire, Dale Davis chuckles, Chris Gatling, Mehmet Okur, and Wally Szczerbiak all made an All-Star game, it's not impossible] but that's an absolute best-case scenario with TT. There's always going to be a place in the league for bigs with motors, but that jump shot is going to be the determining factor on just how good Tristan is going to be.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Wow. You're wrong. He finished with 9 or fewer rebounds in 40 games, for a record of 10-30 and a .250 winning percentage. Numbers just aren't your strong suit Blue, but hey, keep trying! Always brings a laugh out of me. Helps to explain why advanced stats are disliked so much, the basic ones are hard enough for some people.

Go back to your original post Blue. You claimed it was glaring from my own post that we were fucked when Tristan had a bad rebounding night. That conclusion shouldn't have been made because I didn't make any claims about good/bad rebounding performances at all, just double-doubles. While all double-doubles are good rebounding games, not all good rebounding games are double-doubles. That's the point you're missing by a mile.

In response to your incorrect numbers (great job, again) why would you include games when he grabbed 7-8-9 boards? That's not a bad rebounding night. That's still above-average production; it would still rank him among the top-10 rebounders for his position.

In games where he grabbed 6 or fewer rebounds (poor rebounding production) the Cavs finished 5-13 for a .278 winning percentage. That's bad, but it's not in the stratosphere of saying we're fucked without those boards. Besides, I'm hardly worried about something that happens so rarely. By my metric Tristan finished with a poor rebounding night in less than a quarter of the season.



....this again? Please stop imagining slights against AB, I didn't mention him once in my posts. TT supporters are not the ones that always turn these discussions in AB vs TT, just like TT haters are the ones always bringing up the hand switch.

I missed the opening game that was played in October. It wasn't intentional and you seem to think that that somehow made your argument stronger? So he finished with a 10-30 record in games where this walking double-double, elite rebounding machine grabs less than 10 boards. That gives the team a winning percentage of 25% which is the third worse record in the league. Hey but your right, a one game difference diffuses my entire argument and having a better record than the the 76ers is a cause for celebration.

The only reason why I bring AB up is that you and other posters like to bring up TT as being the best on the team in yadda yadda. Like, I said earlier, keep comparing shit to shit and you still left with shit (of course I'm not saying that both are shit).

You label him as an elite rebounder and say that a 7-8-9 rebounding night is above-average? Elite rebounders would consider that a bad rebounder night.

You say he's the top 10 in his position for rebounding and yet call him elite at that skill. How the fuck is that elite? You're telling me that an offense or defense that ranks #10 in the league is elite? Anything that is top 1/3 is elite? With that logic, TT is almost an elite scoring PF in the league. He's ranked 21 in ppg out of 59 PF. I guess we have an elite rebounding and scoring PF on our roster. Pay the man.

Seriously, I don't know how you can sit there and say a 0.278 winning percentage is not fucked. That's the 3rd worse record in the league. And you're not concerned about it because you think it's "rare"? Wtf, how is 22% of games rare? What world do you live in calling 22% of something that happens "rare"? I guess I have a different interpretation of the word "rare". Or is it that you're just trying to mitigate something that's I said is a glaring problem? Let it be on the record that 22%=rare.

Why did you bring up Andy? lol. I wasn't aware that TT fought tooth and nail to get minutes from Andy. Yeah, there was so much competition that Andy had to start at center....

 

[Tornicade]

people keep calling Tristans dobles doubles meaningless. someone shows a chart showing they in fact contirbute to wins and people get mad cause the team isnt winning when he isnt getting doubles doubles and that it is Tristans fault.

Tristan is n an offense that is very guard orientated. not only is it guard orientated but the two guards are both young players who want the ball. neither one knows how to win. neither does tristan. When you put a young tam out there lke that. its the hardest poart if you dont have a core veterans leading the way.

One thing Tristan is. is a starter. He also looks to have a promising career. Perhaps Cleveland can allow him to continue to develop perhaps not but Thompson plays his role within the team and is typically quite consistent about it.. which is why he gets the minutes.

 

[Tornicade]

I missed the opening game that was played in October. It wasn't intentional and you seem to think that that somehow made your argument stronger? So he finished with a 10-30 record in games where this walking double-double, elite rebounding machine grabs less than 10 boards. That gives the team a winning percentage of 25% which is the third worse record in the league. Hey but your right, a one game difference diffuses my entire argument and having a better record than the the 76ers is a cause for celebration.

The only reason why I bring AB up is that you and other posters like to bring up TT as being the best on the team in yadda yadda. Like, I said earlier, keep comparing shit to shit and you still left with shit (of course I'm not saying that both are shit).

You label him as an elite rebounder and say that a 7-8-9 rebounding night is above-average? Elite rebounders would consider that a bad rebounder night.

You say he's the top 10 in his position for rebounding and yet call him elite at that skill. How the fuck is that elite? You're telling me that an offense or defense that ranks #10 in the league is elite? Anything that is top 1/3 is elite? With that logic, TT is almost an elite scoring PF in the league. He's ranked 21 in ppg out of 59 PF. I guess we have an elite rebounding and scoring PF on our roster. Pay the man.

Seriously, I don't know how you can sit there and say a 0.278 winning percentage is not fucked. That's the 3rd worse record in the league. And you're not concerned about it because you think it's "rare"? Wtf, how is 22% of games rare? What world do you live in calling 22% of something that happens "rare"? I guess I have a different interpretation of the word "rare". Or is it that you're just trying to mitigate something that's I said is a glaring problem? Let it be on the record that 22%=rare.

Why did you bring up Andy? lol. I wasn't aware that TT fought tooth and nail to get minutes from Andy. Yeah, there was so much competition that Andy had to start at center....

The record sample clearly shows that when thompson is on his game they are a winning team. when he is not they arent. this is more indicative as a problem with the team than a problem with tristan. Attack the stat all you want. it shows that Thompsons double doubles had an impact on team perfomance and were far from meaningless as what he was responding to.

taking it out of context and throwing it in a bubble is just such a junior forum debate tactic.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

The record sample clearly shows that when thompson is on his game they are a winning team. when he is not they arent. this is more indicative as a problem with the team than a problem with tristan. Attack the stat all you want. it shows that Thompsons double doubles had an impact on team perfomance and were far from meaningless as what he was responding to.

taking it out of context and throwing it in a bubble is just such a junior forum debate tactic.

Lol, right on cue, in to rescue bff! The guy that spouts meaningless stats is attacking the poster when stats are brought into the equation. So I take that you agree with Cosmo that 22% = rare. I guess 22% is just an anomoly.
Doctor: "You got a 22% chance of losing your leg."
Cosmo and Torn: "Don't worry, rare chance of that happening. You're taking it out of context Doc. I know cause I start meaningless threads on RCF". :chuckles:


How does TT's jumpshot being on the same level of Aldridge and Nowitzki working for you? I guess the samples sizes that you used were significantly larger than 22%? You should stick to starting threads that nobody wants to post in so you can feel important and pretend you know what you're talking about. :chuckles:

Don't let this junior forum debater make you look foolish again since you like to think so highly of yourself. We don't want to tarnish your outstanding rep do we?

 

[CosmoKramer]

I missed the opening game that was played in October. It wasn't intentional and you seem to think that that somehow made your argument stronger? So he finished with a 10-30 record in games where this walking double-double, elite rebounding machine grabs less than 10 boards. That gives the team a winning percentage of 25% which is the third worse record in the league. Hey but your right, a one game difference diffuses my entire argument and having a better record than the the 76ers is a cause for celebration.

It doesn't make my argument any stronger. It just makes you look incapable of using the correct stats in matters to Tristan Thompson.

The only reason why I bring AB up is that you and other posters like to bring up TT as being the best on the team in yadda yadda. Like, I said earlier, keep comparing shit to shit and you still left with shit (of course I'm not saying that both are shit).

?

You label him as an elite rebounder and say that a 7-8-9 rebounding night is above-average? Elite rebounders would consider that a bad rebounder night.

Let me spell this out for you Blue. Finishing a game with 7-8 rebounds a game would be considered above-average for most power forwards. If a player averaged 7.5 rebounds a game they'd be 13th in the league. Finishing with 9-10 is considered excellent, contrary to what you say no one would consider that a bad rebounding night. Blake Griffin averages 9.5 and he averages the 5th most among PFs in the league. 10 is considered elite because that's the golden number for a big to average to be considered great by casual fans.

TT averaged 9.2, playing the majority of the season at 22. Only Anthony Davis is younger among the top-10.

You say he's the top 10 in his position for rebounding and yet call him elite at that skill. How the fuck is that elite? You're telling me that an offense or defense that ranks #10 in the league is elite? Anything that is top 1/3 is elite? With that logic, TT is almost an elite scoring PF in the league. He's ranked 21 in ppg out of 59 PF. I guess we have an elite rebounding and scoring PF on our roster. Pay the man.

I know it's easy to forget, but age has to be considered when you're talking about players still on their rookie contracts. We are years away from seeing TT in his prime. Tristan already ranking in the top 10 PFs shows an elite skill, and contrary to popular belief he averaged the second fewest minutes among those top-10 behind Kenneth Faried. It's not just a matter of playing a lot, he averaged more rebounds a game than Dirk Nowtizki, Paul Millsap, Serge Ibaka, and Thaddeus Young despite playing fewer minutes.

So yes, Tristan is an elite rebounder, especially for his age.

Seriously, I don't know how you can sit there and say a 0.278 winning percentage is not fucked. That's the 3rd worse record in the league. And you're not concerned about it because you think it's "rare"? Wtf, how is 22% of games rare? What world do you live in calling 22% of something that happens "rare"? I guess I have a different interpretation of the word "rare". Or is it that you're just trying to mitigate something that's I said is a glaring problem? Let it be on the record that 22%=rare.

Rarely wasn't the perfect word, but it's not sure as hell doesn't happen often enough to call it a "glaring problem."

Why did you bring up Andy? lol. I wasn't aware that TT fought tooth and nail to get minutes from Andy. Yeah, there was so much competition that Andy had to start at center....

I brought up Andy because he's a power forward. Saying Tristan hasn't played with a viable power forward his entire career is wrong, he also shifted to center to play alongside Antawn Jamison when Andy went down his rookie year. Calling Antawn Jamison a viable power forward during his time here would be way too nice of a compliment though.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Doctor: "You got a 22% chance of losing your leg."
Cosmo and Torn: "Don't worry, rare chance of that happening. You're taking it out of context Doc. I know cause I start meaningless threads on RCF". :chuckles:

Can I have your number Blue? I have a friend from high school that writes for Jimmy Kimmel, we need to get you into comedy!

 

[Spencer Hawes]

It doesn't make my argument any stronger. It just makes you look incapable of using the correct stats in matters to Tristan Thompson.



?



Let me spell this out for you Blue. Finishing a game with 7-8 rebounds a game would be considered above-average for most power forwards. If a player averaged 7.5 rebounds a game they'd be 13th in the league. Finishing with 9-10 is considered excellent, contrary to what you say no one would consider that a bad rebounding night. Blake Griffin averages 9.5 and he averages the 5th most among PFs in the league. 10 is considered elite because that's the golden number for a big to average to be considered great by casual fans.

TT averaged 9.2, playing the majority of the season at 22. Only Anthony Davis is younger among the top-10.



I know it's easy to forget, but age has to be considered when you're talking about players still on their rookie contracts. We are years away from seeing TT in his prime. Tristan already ranking in the top 10 PFs shows an elite skill, and contrary to popular belief he averaged the second fewest minutes among those top-10 behind Kenneth Faried. It's not just a matter of playing a lot, he averaged more rebounds a game than Dirk Nowtizki, Paul Millsap, Serge Ibaka, and Thaddeus Young despite playing fewer minutes.

So yes, Tristan is an elite rebounder, especially for his age.



Rarely wasn't the perfect word, but it's not sure as hell doesn't happen often enough to call it a "glaring problem."



I brought up Andy because he's a power forward. Saying Tristan hasn't played with a viable power forward his entire career is wrong, he also shifted to center to play alongside Antawn Jamison when Andy went down his rookie year. Calling Antawn Jamison a viable power forward during his time here would be way too nice of a compliment though.

Ok, I'm incapable of using correct stats in a TT debate because of one unintensional omission when I was adding up games lol. Even though the error/sample size is 2.5% of the total and has little or no bearing to the argument that I was making. But you brush off 22% of something and say that it's "rare". Now you're backtracking and saying 22% is not rare but it's sure as hell not glaring? Excuse me but 22% is a hell of lot closer to "glaring" than rare.

Obviously, you completely misunderstood when I said TT didn't have any viable competition at the PF spot. Andy played more of centers role and everyone and their mama knew that TT needed minutes in order to develop and Andy was being shopped around for the right price. Bottom line was that TT was getting minutes at the PF spot and Andy was slid to the since we didn't even an NBA caliber staring center. For your to say that Andy was TT's competition for minutes at the PF spot when TT was drafted (even though Andy was playing center), just shows how out of touch you really are. How is Andy in competition for TT's minutes when they're on the court together? lol

I guess you have this notion that TT is young and will eventually develop into a more elite rebounder? I mean, you say he's elite now even though people bring up stats saying he's not and then you pull out the "he played most of the season at 22" lol. As if saying he's 23 is damaging? But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. It's just I get confused on your stance. Is TT elite compared to current NBA PFs? Is he elite compared to PF's in his age range? In his draft class? Is he gonna be elite when he get in his prime? You throw around "elite rebounder" and make up all kinds of excuses when people dig into stats that shows otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player on our team. I think he can be good rotational player and that we can keep him but I'm not gonna say he's elite at anything in order to make a case for him and I'm not gonna be pissed if he walks.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Can I have your number Blue? I have a friend from high school that writes for Jimmy Kimmel, we need to get you into comedy!

I wasn't trying to be funny you poon. :chuckles:

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I wasn't trying to be funny you poon. :chuckles:

The greats don't have to try. Props.

 

[EdMonix11]

people keep calling Tristans dobles doubles meaningless. someone shows a chart showing they in fact contirbute to wins and people get mad cause the team isnt winning when he isnt getting doubles doubles and that it is Tristans fault.

Tristan is n an offense that is very guard orientated. not only is it guard orientated but the two guards are both young players who want the ball. neither one knows how to win. neither does tristan. When you put a young tam out there lke that. its the hardest poart if you dont have a core veterans leading the way.

One thing Tristan is. is a starter. He also looks to have a promising career. Perhaps Cleveland can allow him to continue to develop perhaps not but Thompson plays his role within the team and is typically quite consistent about it.. which is why he gets the minutes.

It doesn't matter what offense Tristan is in if he can't do anything other than score from hustle points. He's had plenty off opportunities to score by other means and has consistently failed to do so. You're just making excuses for him now by blaming our young guards-- you can only prop up a player with limited ability for so long.

One thing Tristan is not, is a starter. He's a rebounder. When you don't do anything else particularly well or above average, it certainly limits your role on a team. You guys can talk about his rebounding stats until you're blue in the face, but Tristan doesn't do anything else. He doesn't block shots, he doesn't create turnovers, he's not a great man on man defender, he doesn't score unless right under the basket, and he's not a good passer. He seems like a great guy and works hard, but he's a dime a dozen player.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Ok, I'm incapable of using correct stats in a TT debate because of one unintensional omission when I was adding up games lol. Even though the error/sample size is 2.5% of the total and has little or no bearing to the argument that I was making. But you brush off 22% of something and say that it's "rare". Now you're backtracking and saying 22% is not rare but it's sure as hell not glaring? Excuse me but 22% is a hell of lot closer to "glaring" than rare.

This isn't the first time you've used wrong numbers in regards to Tristan. Judging by your continued incompetence in the matter, I'm sure it won't be the last.

Obviously, you completely misunderstood when I said TT didn't have any viable competition at the PF spot. Andy played more of centers role and everyone and their mama knew that TT needed minutes in order to develop and Andy was being shopped around for the right price. Bottom line was that TT was getting minutes at the PF spot and Andy was slid to the since we didn't even an NBA caliber staring center. For your to say that Andy was TT's competition for minutes at the PF spot when TT was drafted (even though Andy was playing center), just shows how out of touch you really are. How is Andy in competition for TT's minutes when they're on the court together?

Just because Andy "played more of a centers role" doesn't make him a center. He's a power forward, that's his best position on an NBA court. I haven't once claimed Andy and TT have been fighting for minutes since his rookie year, I was disproving your notion we haven't had a viable PF on the roster along with TT. Anderson Varejao and Antawn Jamison make 2.

Out of touch? Really? Coming from someone that can't give correct stats and follows it up with more false information left and right?

Maybe you should pay more attention to the games, Blue. They played more minutes separately than together after the Hawes trade, and Andy actually did take minutes from Tristan at PF next to Hawes after returning from his injury. It hasn't even been a full month since the season ended Blue, how are you forgetting this?

I guess you have this notion that TT is young and will eventually develop into a more elite rebounder? I mean, you say he's elite now even though people bring up stats saying he's not and then you pull out the "he played most of the season at 22" lol. As if saying he's 23 is damaging? But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. It's just I get confused on your stance. Is TT elite compared to current NBA PFs? Is he elite compared to PF's in his age range? In his draft class? Is he gonna be elite when he get in his prime? You throw around "elite rebounder" and make up all kinds of excuses when people dig into stats that shows otherwise.

In order of your questions: Yes, No, Just in regards to that one skill, Yes, Yes, Yes.

Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player on our team. I think he can be good rotational player and that we can keep him but I'm not gonna say he's elite at anything in order to make a case for him and I'm not gonna be pissed if he walks.

And you're confused about my stance on TT? WTF?

I wasn't trying to be funny you poon. :chuckles:

I'm sure you weren't Blue.