Tristan Thompson

[LuNcHBoX]

...how much you want to bet that him and Green goes down to the wire, using each leak to bump up their offers? Hilarious watching the teams get bent over like this. At least Golden State ends up with a stretch 4 starting PF who actually can guard anybody; Cavs will still have an energy big who gets offensive but not defensive boards, has no offensive game and is a solid defender for the same price.

I thought Green already agreed to a contract?

 

[Jordan]

The idea is not what leverage Lebron has to control the Cavs. It is about keeping Lebron happy. I doubt he ever leaves, but, there is a lot an angry Lebron can do while still on your team. Also, I know we think we are smarter than Lebron, but there is a reason he wants guys like Delly and Tristan around. We are already over the cap so I don't understand why, at this point, you don't keep the boys together. It does not effect the team, frankly. The only person it effects is Gilbert. So if he doesn't want to pay that is one thing but that seems false.

Also, I know everyone opposed to the contract is now painting Tristan to be a below average player but that's just bullshit. We will not be able to replace him, at least for this season, and that's really fucking scary.

 

[macbdog]

I thought Green already agreed to a contract?

Reportedly agreed. And until the contracts are signed, nothing is concrete until then- especially for the capped teams that can't afford to just walk away. It isn't like the cap space will disappear. Nothing agreed to is binding until the 8th so why agree now?

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I doubt he ever leaves, but, there is a lot an angry Lebron can do while still on your team.

Are you insinuating that LeBron would jeopardize the team's success and risk tarnishing his legacy because his "boy" didn't get more grossly overpaid than he already was?

Look, I think all of us hope this group, including TT, stays intact. What a lot of us feel is that that can be accomplished without giving in to TT's outrageous demands and over-inflated sense of his worth as a player. He doesn't deserve that money just because Gilbert has it and has demonstrated a willingness to spend it for the good of the team and city. It makes TT and LeBron look really bad, especially in light of the reports that Shumpert was offered more elsewhere but capitulated for less to play here.

 

[Jordan]

Are you insinuating that LeBron would jeopardize the team's success and risk tarnishing his legacy because his "boy" didn't get more grossly overpaid than he already was?

No, not at all. But as anyone who has played sports -- or frankly participated in any sort of team competitions -- knows if you are frustrated with some aspects of the team it may effect your game. So no, I do not think Lebron would consciously undermine the Cavs. But if he is frustrated at Gilbert it may happen anyways. Lebron didn't undermine the Heat when they did not bring back Mike Miller, but early in the season when Miami wasn't making 3s, LBJ was visibly frustrated. No team wants a frustrated superstar.

Look, I think all of us hope this group, including TT, stays intact. What a lot of us feel is that that can be accomplished without giving in to TT's outrageous demands and over-inflated sense of his worth as a player. He doesn't deserve that money just because Gilbert has it and has demonstrated a willingness to spend it for the good of the team and city. It makes TT and LeBron look really bad, especially in light of the reports that Shumpert was offered more elsewhere but capitulated for less to play here.

So you're telling me you would forsake winning a championship -- which, TT may or may not play a significant role in, none of us know -- in order for Gilbert to "look good?" The NBA is a different world, man. None of these players deserve the kind of money they are making. But the way team's are spending an $80 million deal for TT will probably be fair, if only because, due to our cap space, we cannot afford a replacement. Maybe $85-$90 is an overpay but why the hell do you care? It literally hurts the Cavs if we don't have him and does not hurt us if we overspend for him. It hurts Gilbert, and if he does not want to do it, then I totally understand. I'm sorry, but not wanting TT because you wan't your owner to "look good" while other teams win a championship is asinine.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

So you're telling me you would forsake winning a championship -- which, TT may or may not play a significant role in, none of us know -- in order for Gilbert to "look good?" The NBA is a different world, man. None of these players deserve the kind of money they are making. But the way team's are spending an $80 million deal for TT will probably be fair, if only because, due to our cap space, we cannot afford a replacement. Maybe $85-$90 is an overpay but why the hell do you care? It literally hurts the Cavs if we don't have him and does not hurt us if we overspend for him. It hurts Gilbert, and if he does not want to do it, then I totally understand. I'm sorry, but not wanting TT because you wan't your owner to "look good" while other teams win a championship is asinine.

I said nothing about Gilbert "looking good"...it's the "hurting Gilbert" aspect that I take umbrage with. Gilbert is doing his damndest to deliver a championship to the city and his generosity is being abused...not taken advantage of, abused, and I have a problem with that. It could directly impact the budding success of the team if Gilbert decides he doesn't want to shell out much more after blowing such a wad on Thompson. Furthermore, this should have been resolved yesterday instead of being drawn out any further. The Cavs have plenty of things to focus on at the moment yet they're marred in this fiasco.

There's no "maybe $85-90" is an overpay..$80 is an overpay for what TT brings to the table. The Cavs made him a more than fair offer which should have been signed immediately.

 

[Paul]

I said nothing about Gilbert "looking good"...it's the "hurting Gilbert" aspect that I take umbrage with. Gilbert is doing his damndest to deliver a championship to the city and his generosity is being abused...not taken advantage of, abused, and I have a problem with that. It could directly impact the budding success of the team if Gilbert decides he doesn't want to shell out much more after blowing such a wad on Thompson. Furthermore, this should have been resolved yesterday instead of being drawn out any further. The Cavs have plenty of things to focus on at the moment yet they're marred in this fiasco.

There's no "maybe $85-90" is an overpay..$80 is an overpay for what TT brings to the table. The Cavs made him a more than fair offer which should have been signed immediately.

I agree with this and I think at some point Gilbert will cry uncle, and it will probably have unforeseen effects on the organization down the road. Once you establish a pattern where "LeBron gets what LeBron wants", you're in big trouble. LeBron is close to JR as well, does this mean we now have to give JR 10 mil a year just so LeBron isn't upset for 3 hours?

There's got to be some middle ground between how Riley would have handled this situation and how we are.

 

[Jordan]

I said nothing about Gilbert "looking good"...it's the "hurting Gilbert" aspect that I take umbrage with. Gilbert is doing his damndest to deliver a championship to the city and his generosity is being abused...not taken advantage of, abused, and I have a problem with that. It could directly impact the budding success of the team if Gilbert decides he doesn't want to shell out much more after blowing such a wad on Thompson. Furthermore, this should have been resolved yesterday instead of being drawn out any further. The Cavs have plenty of things to focus on at the moment yet they're marred in this fiasco.

There's no "maybe $85-90" is an overpay..$80 is an overpay for what TT brings to the table. The Cavs made him a more than fair offer which should have been signed immediately.

But it gets back to the same point. If we are hurt by losing TT, which we will be, then our chances of winning a championship aren't as good.

Also, I take issue with the fact that you don't trust Gilbert to make his own decisions. If he thinks he can afford paying TT $80-$90 million then I don't understand why you, who have no relation to Dan nor how much money he has, feel like you know better.

 

[cavsfever]

The NBA is a different world, man. None of these players deserve the kind of money they are making.

Just responding to this part -- I think in general NBA players *do* deserve the money they make. They are all among the best few hundred people in the world at what they do, and what they do drives a multi-billion dollar industry. They have short careers, most only 5-10 years, the very best are still out by their mid-30s. A top hedge fund manager can earn $500 million - $1 billion a year, a boxer can earn tens of millions for a single fight. It's a crazy society we've built, but given that craziness NBA players certainly do deserve to make millions or tens of millions a year for performing at the highest level in a physically demanding sport that can take nine months of full-time work a year.

The issue with TT is not that he's asking to get paid, it's that he is demanding compensation way out of line with *other NBA players* and other members of his team and leveraging not his talent, but (apparently) his LBJ connection to get it.

 

[Jordan]

Just responding to this part -- I think in general NBA players *do* deserve the money they make. They are all among the best few hundred people in the world at what they do, and what they do drives a multi-billion dollar industry. They have short careers, most only 5-10 years, the very best are still out by their mid-30s. A top hedge fund manager can earn $500 million - $1 billion a year, a boxer can earn tens of millions for a single fight. It's a crazy society we've built, but given that craziness NBA players certainly do deserve to make millions or tens of millions a year for performing at the highest level in a physically demanding sport that can take nine months of full-time work a year.

The issue with TT is not that he's asking to get paid, it's that he is demanding compensation way out of line with *other NBA players* and other members of his team and leveraging not his talent, but (apparently) his LBJ connection to get it.

Yeah I mean, I understand where you are coming from. But the idea that someone who contributes a minimum amount to society like an athlete getting paid 10x more than some of the best doctors is crazy, man.

I think what you're saying about TT isn't 100% fair. The reason he is getting paid is not only because his LBJ connection, which you implied when you said "leveraging not his talent, but (apparently) his LBJ connection to get it." He is absolutely leveraging his talent/effect on games. TT is an irreplaceable fit for an offense that shoots a lot of three pointers. If I remember correctly he rebounded 15-20% of all offensive rebound opportunities while he was on the floor in the finals. That is absolutely demonstrative of talent. TT is probably a top-20 defender who is 6'10 or taller when it comes to switching off pick and rolls. I went over a list of statistics earlier but their are numbers that demonstrate this.

Does he have a limited offensive game? Yes. Is he lightning quick? No. But Deandre Jordan isn't either of those things either and is about to get $90+ per year. Is DJ better? Absolutely. But I don't think he is $10+ million better.

Is paying TT $80-$90 million, in a vacuum, an overpay? 100%. But let's leave the vacuum and look at reality. If we lose TT we will not be able to replace him and adequately fill out our bench. Moreover, this may be the case for a number of years. So when you look at the situation holistically, on top of wanting a happy Lebron, the Cavs, imo, have no choice when it comes to re-signing TT.

 

[Mdog1]

I agree with this and I think at some point Gilbert will cry uncle, and it will probably have unforeseen effects on the organization down the road. Once you establish a pattern where "LeBron gets what LeBron wants", you're in big trouble. LeBron is close to JR as well, does this mean we now have to give JR 10 mil a year just so LeBron isn't upset for 3 hours?

There's got to be some middle ground between how Riley would have handled this situation and how we are.

Riley had LeBron under contract for four years, we have one, one, then whatever he decides. Easier to make moves free of LeBron when you have a commitment.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Also, I take issue with the fact that you don't trust Gilbert to make his own decisions.

I take issue with strong-arm tactics and coercion. We all know that LeBron has Gilbert's back against a wall: "pay up or else". Clearly Gilbert has an issue with TT's current financial demands or this would have been wrapped up already. Why don't the Cavs as an organization just have an "open salary" structure where they all dictate how much they make? You're paid commensurate with your skillset, not because your owner is willing to pay out of his pocket.

 

[Paul]

But it gets back to the same point. If we are hurt by losing TT, which we will be, then our chances of winning a championship aren't as good.

Also, I take issue with the fact that you don't trust Gilbert to make his own decisions. If he thinks he can afford paying TT $80-$90 million then I don't understand why you, who have no relation to Dan nor how much money he has, feel like you know better.

TT won't be lost, hes a restricted free agent so all we have to do is match the best offer. If we played hardball we might get him for 13 or 14 mil a year.

 

[Jordan]

I take issue with strong-arm tactics and coercion. We all know that LeBron has Gilbert's back against a wall: "pay up or else". Clearly Gilbert has an issue with TT's current financial demands or this would have been wrapped up already. Why don't the Cavs as an organization just have an "open salary" structure where they all dictate how much they make? You're paid commensurate with your skillset, not because your owner is willing to pay out of his pocket.

And Gilbert signed up for this game when he brought back Lebron. Lebron has the most talent in the world and has a personality to go along with it. That goes along with Lebron's tremendous talent and amazing mind for the game of basketball. Countless coaches, players, and reporters have discussed this. Lebron knows basketball. I've posted stats time and time again in this thread about how TT actually is talented, and isn't a worthless piece of crap people (you haven't, both others have) are making him out to seem. Is he $16-$18 million a year talented? Not yet. But we are in a situation where we may have to overpay. That brings me to this...

TT won't be lost, hes a restricted free agent so all we have to do is match the best offer. If we played hardball we might get him for 13 or 14 mil a year.

Maybe, maybe not. When Aldridge and Jordan sign places teams who've cleared cap-space looking for a big man are going to be anxious, and this will drive up the market. I'm all for letting TT sign an offer sheet somewhere else, but we all need to realize he may get exactly what he is asking. That is where my argument comes into play. I think the Cavs absolutely need to re-sign Tristan.

 

[Los216]

Bottom line is this. Regardless what the cap is, if everything goes as planned as far as players health Tristan will always come off the bench. He's never gonna be out starting Center. There's not a single team in the league who's paying a young player 80+Mil to come off the bench.

If Tristan is starting it's because something is wrong with Love or Moz. You don't pay Tristan 80+Mil if he was you starter. Why would you pay him that to come off the bench in the role best suited for him?

Stop using the cap going up as an excuse to overpay. How are we going to improve the team if every player wants to get paid more than what they provide. Personally I think he's a 4-5yr/48-60M tops player.