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Uninsured's leave $49 billion in unpaid hospital bills

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Didn't we cover this? We are the fattest nation on the planet...by a long shot. So they are "lesser" because they aren't as fat.

I don't think we ever resolved it. For example, the percentage of americans and germans that are overweight is identical, germans average 1.1 longer lifespans than americans. They have universal healthcare and we don't. Israel isn't far behind us in terms of people overweight, but they live 2.6 years longer.

And I think as a country we could take a closer look at the incredibly stupid things we do that makes the nation overweight in the first place. Such as subsidizing the corn that gets used to make high fructose corn syrup. Americans actually eat significantly less actual sugar than other countries

USA: 32.4 kg (71 lb)
EU: 40.1 kg (88 lb)
Brazil: 59.7 kg (132 lb)
Australia: 56.2 kg (124 lb)

we make up for it by consuming high fructose corn syrup because the government makes it cheaper with corn subsidies. Other countries restrict the use of HFCS through quotas and tariffs. America wouldn't be nearly as fat if instead of subsidizing higher glycemic index sweeteners 35 years ago, we had instead moved to lower glycemic index sweeteners.
 
if lesser countries have implemented national health care , why is it such a a problem and fear for us.

Maybe there's fear because we are 14 trillion in debt??
 
The problem I have with some liberals in here is the fact I tell them to spell my correct member name a few times. If I wish to call myself dumb and stupid, I'll do it myself. I don't want or need you all doing it for me. Kind of ironic how those supporting bigger government are the same who agree I'm just a dumb conservative. Obama has a history calling others dumb and looking down on others. It fits.

Hey I never called you dumb. I just agreed with you. I think spelling your name like that is childish, but so is calling people "fucking faggots."
 
I guess Max hates America.
 
I don't think we ever resolved it. The percentage of americans and germans that are overweight is identical, germans average 1.1 longer lifespans than americans. They have universal healthcare and we don't. Israel isn't far behind us in terms of people overweight, but they live 2.6 years longer.
?

economix-23obesitycorrected-custom2.jpg
 
Maybe there's fear because we are 14 trillion in debt??

health insurance doesn't change the costs of healthcare. As a nation, we are already paying for it. What is so wrong with making it more efficient by improving access to preventive care?
 
Hey I never called you dumb. I just agreed with you. I think spelling your name like that is childish, but so is calling people "fucking faggots."

I guess you didn't hear about the Kobe Bryant phrase he used to a referee? That was it. I was only mimicking him. It wasn't suppose to be any attack. I guess I assumed everyone in here knew a joke when they saw one and knew I was doing the Bryant thing. My bad. Sorry about that.

Changing up my username is a tad bit different. I don't think that's a joke.
 
I don't see it an issue about some people not being able to afford health care. My point is that those who do have health coverage generally don't seek preventative care. Those who do generally don't change behavior to improve their health future. What's more, those cases that could be effectively solved with preventative care are a drop in the bucket of total health care.

I just haven't seen any evidence that there are a significant portion of the population who would seek preventative checkups if given the means. I haven't seen any evidence that even if those people did get regular checkups that they would alter their behavior. I'm sure there are fringe cases where some people would get regular checkups and would follow through on inexpensive ($4 a month) that they can't afford. I'm not opposed to that happening. The reason to that shouldn't be done under the guise of reducing future health care costs, because I think at best it breaks even (more healthy people who don't need regular checkups would be the ones most likely going, those who don't care about their health, are are the least healthy, wouldn't show up). There are better ways of reducing future health care costs. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

You sir are out of touch. Straight out of touch. Most food that's good for you cost more than things that are bad for you. You expect people who can't afford insurance to eat extremely healthy? If they can't afford insurance, do you honestly believe they're going to go out and buy fruit, veggies, and wheat bread? While white bread, fatty foods, and things that are bad for you cost a lot less?

You could buy a dollar pizza, 10 cent ramon noodles, cheap TV ($1-2) dinners at Walmart or they could buy 10 dollars of chicken. What the hell do you think they're going to buy?

Walmart could do their part by getting rid of the scooters and letting fatties walk, but they won't do that. They want to keep them coming around.


Illegal Immigration Healthcare Costs Affect YOU!

Posted on June 1, 2010 by admin


By Elizabeth Lee Vliet, M.D.

The national spotlight is on Arizona for doing what the Federal government and previous Governor Napolitano refused to do: rein in an invasion of illegal aliens bankrupting our state (Arizona). At an August 2009 healthcare Town Hall in Phoenix, legislators said that more than half of Arizona’s 4 billion dollar budget deficit was the result of paying for three areas of services to illegal immigrants: education, healthcare, and incarceration.

What does illegal immigration have to do with your costs and your access to medical care when you need it?

Estimates are that 20-40% of uncompensated (“free”) medical services are provided to people in the US illegally. The actual number may be much higher. Shockingly, hospitals and clinics don’t ask about citizenship…a medical version of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”

In both Tucson and Dallas where I have practiced medicine, hospitals are struggling under massive costs of uncompensated medical services for uninsured people who, by federal law, cannot be turned away for lack of insurance or ability to pay.

How much does this uncompensated care actually cost taxpayers? The incredible answer: no one knows.

We only have “estimates” of the costs to taxpayers to treat illegal immigrants because hospitals and public health clinics do not ask for proof of citizenship before providing care.
What are consequences to taxpaying citizens?

1. Increased cost and reduced access to trauma care. Tucson has lost all but one Level I Trauma Center to serve all of southern Arizona, in large part due to massive, unsustainable losses from uncompensated care. Auto accidents involving overloaded vans of illegal aliens happen regularly in southern Arizona. Injured are flown by air ambulance to University Medical Center’s Trauma Center and treated with state of the art care….all at taxpayer expense.

2. A registered nurse involved with the Pima County health system since the 1970’s who must remain anonymous because of her role, said she has never seen any staff member at either El Rio Clinic or Pima County Health Department ask for proof of citizenship before providing free medical services (immunizations, Well Baby checks, food stamps, WIC services, birth control, and even elective abortions). Costs are paid by taxpayers. When funds are depleted, low income American citizens have fewer services and longer waits as a result.

3. This same RN also said: “I personally know Mexican men who married 16 year old girls, got them pregnant, brought them to Tucson for the baby to become a US citizen. They live in Mexico but come here for their health care. Taxpayers pay for this medical care many ways, at the Public Health Department, and with school nurses who provide care.”

4. Uncompensated medical services for illegal immigrants mean higher premiums for all of us due to cost shifting among all third party payers. To cover the deficits from “free” medical services they provide, the administration at University Physicians Health System Kino campus is analyzing how much to increase employee health insurance premiums as of July 1.

5. Obamacare cuts benefits to American citizens: $500 billion in Medicare cuts and slashing the Medicare Advantage program. Medicare Advantage, chosen by one in five seniors, is the most popular plan for low and moderate income seniors, and covers about half of our Hispanic or African-American elderly. My patients on Medicare have worked and paid into the system over their working careers, yet these cuts mean less health*care available to them now. We certainly cannot afford to cover those here illegally.

6. Hospitals in Tucson and Dallas also provide uncompensated (“free”) maternity services to pregnant women here illegally. Their babies then become US citizens entitled to all of the services available for low income American families – food stamps, WIC, immunizations, office visits, medications, etc. This drives up costs to all of us: higher premiums for private insurance companies, and higher taxes for government insurance like Arizona’s Medicaid (AHCCCS).

7. Professional estimates are that over half of the pregnant women served at Parkland Hospital in Dallas are in this country illegally. With over 16,000 deliveries a year, Parkland is one of the nation’s busiest maternity services with prenatal clinics for low income women to receive free prenatal care, nutrition, medication, birthing classes, child care classes, and free supplies (formula, diapers, bottles, car seats). Taxpayers pay the bills.

How many of these women are legal citizens and how many are not? No one knows. No one asks about citizenship.

It is significant that the 4 states with the highest number of uninsured patients are the southern Border States that also have the highest burden of illegal immigrants: California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

The bottom line is that working, taxpaying, legal citizens are bearing the brunt of the failure of our government officials to document citizenship before providing medical services.

How long before your medical care is delayed or denied because our health systems have collapsed from deficits due to uncompensated medical care?

Arizona’s massive deficits, greatly increased by healthcare services for illegals, is the canary in the mine, warning of a potential explosion that may collapse the system for all.

It’s straight out of the Cloward-Piven playbook: destroy the system by overwhelming it. Your state – and your healthcare –may be next.

Yeah and it was Bush who helped them stay here. Thank your Republican president.
 
I got data from here

http://www.expatify.com/news/the-worlds-top-10-fattest-countries.html

but even your chart leaves the question of why New Zealand does so much better than us in life expectancy at 80.59 years vs 78.3 or Australia at 81.2 years. They aren't that far off of the US in obesity.

Are you really comparing New Zealand to the US? Their population is 1% of the USA and is 1/3 THE SIZE OF OHIO. We have 12M illegals in here we have to take care of...that's 3X the entire New Zealand population. Australia's population is 5% of the United States.
Can we stop the "well it works for these lesser countries, why no us?" arguments? Apples v Couch comparisons...

There are way too many variables for this argument. There is no consistant measurement data from country to country.
The US considers any child born, even if its 5 months premature to be a live birth. Some countries dont count them. So while the US has all these infant deaths of premies on the books, some nations consider them never to have existed. Do you think that effects the average?
How about crime rates? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that ours is substantially higher than Australia or New Zealand. Does that effect the average?
Which brings up another point - we rank very high when it comes to murders, shootings, stabbings, car fatalities, and drug overdoses. What do these deaths tell us at all about our health care? Aboslutely NOTHING. These people die before having any interaction with the system, right? But it pulls down our life expectancy.

The US is a huge complicated country. It's also a HUGE melting pot which weighs heavily on life expectancy. It has nothing to do with nationalized healthcare and everything to do with obesity, lifestyle, crime, race and that fact that there are not standardized measures used around the world.


Quick question - Why is the average Japanese American life expectancy closely tied to those of Japan? Think about that for a while...
 
I'm not saying there doesn't need to be a major overhaul, but do you really want the governement to run it? The same people that have developed the current tax code? They can't run ANYTHING efficiently - see Fannie, Freddie, Soc Sec, Dep of Ed, HUD, Transportation, etc, etc, etc.

There's a certain irony in saying that the government can't run something efficiently while at the same time supporting a political party bent on making sure those agencies are underfunded. No?
 
we rank very high when it comes to murders, shootings, stabbings, car fatalities, and drug overdoses. What do these deaths tell us at all about our health care? Aboslutely NOTHING. These people die before having any interaction with the system, right? But it pulls down our life expectancy.

The US is a huge complicated country. It's also a HUGE melting pot which weighs heavily on life expectancy. It has nothing to do with nationalized healthcare and everything to do with obesity, lifestyle, crime, race and that fact that there are not standardized measures used around the world.
The video is from a grand opening of In-and-Out Burger near Dallas, Tx. (Max your points are right on target and something you can add is stress.)

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bent on making sure those agencies are underfunded.

Nope, what you call underfunding I call more making more efficient. Cut out the waste and fraud and most agencies have more than enough to run fine. These agencies are like crack addicts, they just keep coming back for more and more. If you don't give it to them, people like you say we hate the kids, elderly, poor, etc. Everyone and every agency has to make sacrifices. If they need more money it's time to find it from within.
14.3 trillion defecit can't keep going up.

We all have to live within budgets at our businesses and our homes, it's not too much to ask that the government does the same. They can't just keep asking for more. I know, I know, I know, "but Bush and republicans caused the deficit". I dont give a damn who caused it anymore, all I know is now we got it. We need trillions in cuts to get out of this jam. I'm more than happy to pay more if Obama asks, BUT ONLY if he makes major sacrifices too.

12M illegals. 77 Welfare programs. $300M in food stamp fraud. $500M to first time home buyers that weren't...some were prison inmates. The list goes on and on and on and on of taxpayer dollars wasted. Do they correct the problem? No, they are "underfunded", they 'll just ask for more. It's bullshit really.

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Here's the govt waste report that there has been no action on at all -
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf
 
The US is a huge complicated country. It's also a HUGE melting pot which weighs heavily on life expectancy. It has nothing to do with nationalized healthcare and everything to do with obesity, lifestyle, crime, race and that fact that there are not standardized measures used around the world.

There's a big leap in logic to go from saying there are other factors that come into play to saying that 20% of the country not having health insurance isn't a factor at all. Obese or not, if you have high blood pressure, it's important to get treatment. How many of the 60 million uninsured in this country have high blood pressure or diabetes, don't know it, and can't afford to go to a doctor to get tested? Instead of early treatment that lowers their risk of serious complications, they find out after they have a heart attack or stroke.

Then there are people like me who get screwed over by the current system with $1700/month health insurance premiums with $10,000 deductibles. When I got the policy a decade ago, the premiums were under $400/month. This year we were hit with a $400/month rate increase. Currently, in 2014 the rules change and I can again have reasonably affordable health insurance. As you might imagine, it's a major strain right now.

There's currently a high risk pool my wife (stroke survivor) and son (type 1 diabetes) would qualify for if we were if we drop insurance on them for 6 months. It perhaps would be justifiable to take that risk if not for the fact republicans are trying to do away with the healthcare act and the high risk pool along with it. Type 1 diabetes can hit any child. The stroke my wife had could happen to any family - it was caused by a fall.
 
Here's the govt waste report that there has been no action on at all -
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf

Is there waste in government? unquestionably. I used to work at NASA, when I was there every year at the end of the fiscal year, everyone would scramble to spend every cent left in the budget. You had to spend it even if you didn't need anything because you wouldn't just lose the unspent money, your budget going forward would get cut by the same amount. You couldn't just save the government money by not spending it and you couldn't carry it over to help pay for a larger thing you needed the next year.

I'm not sure, though, what that has to do with healthcare. Certainty it's possible to reduce waste and have healthcare.
 

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