Uninsured's leave $49 billion in unpaid hospital bills

[Coyote]

Government should be for the people and by the people. It should not exist to rule the people.

And yet it does, by the consent of the people. The people crafted a government to rule themselves and not be ruled by a foreign power. Law of rule voted on, judged, and enforced by the people. I'd rather abide by a government in which I have a voice than a corporation in which I have none.

Government has already screwed up social security, Medicaid/Medicaid, highways, postal system, etc, and now some want the government to now screw up our health care?

I'm with you on the first three, though it's important to consider that each of those is relatively new in terms of history and government. In fact, the idea that government exists to provide for the common good through social programs on the magnitude of Social Security, etc., is a relatively new idea. If you prefer the poor houses of the Victorian era, be my guest.

I don't get the hate on the post office. Long lines, I guess, but there was a long line at Chili's last night too. Private alternatives like UPS and technology advancements like email have made post office jokes outdated.

Besides areas of national security, crime, basic rules of law and order, what is government suppose to be actually doing that it won't screw up? In other words, what hasn't it screwed up? And why should I trust government to all the sudden make health care some kind of great system when it can't deliver the damn mail efficiently or actually enforce the existing immigration law?

Government will always screw up in some way. That's the imperfect nature of the beast. But there's a huge difference between "screwing up" and "making a disaster of", which is how you're characterizing it. And you can point to what it hasn't done well, but you should consider how what it has done even satisfactorily affects your life every day.

The roads are passable. I wasn't mugged today. I got my mail. I was able to check out books from this thing called the library, books I wouldn't be able to afford to buy. Even though it's expensive as hell, I can actually have health insurance now. And I ought to be thanking...Viacom? Wal-Mart?

I'm waiting for answers to sway me about government. History tells me government isn't the answer and never has been the answer.

How far back in history did you look?

Here, this ties into the health thing. When I was a kid, I remember the schools telling us that a daily calorie intake should be 3000. Now we're an obese nation. The government now spreads the message that 3000 is too much for just about everyone. Should they have known better back then? I don't know that particular history well enough to say. I know food lobbyists worked like hell to resist changes in government regulation. You damn betcha McDonald's and friends didn't come along willingly on the health kick. Why would they? It wasn't in their best interests. Nowadays, if they want to keep at least a certain portion of their consumer base, they have to adjust. (Or, in the case of Rallys, not.)

Government isn't THE answer. But it's a big part of the answer. I'm not sure how you can logically quote the Constitution and then say the government it created could "never" be the answer. Seems kinda funky to me.

 

[Jon]

There are people working 35 hrs./week who are not considered full-time. Where I used to work, they continually hired "seasonal" help and kept them on all year long in order to avoid paying them at a part-timer's rate or giving them holidays, sick days, etc. In my current job as an adjunct professor, I teach a full load and am encouraged to take on more projects and duties, but I have no way to buy into the college's health plan. I know waiters, musicians, construction workers, administrative assistants with the same problems, and even full-time workers who were denied coverage. This is why the problem is so great, not because of a conspiracy of shiftless idiots who want to cheat the system.

Have you looked in to how much it would cost you to buy your own health insurance outside the college's plan?

No matter how you look at it the incentives are wrong. Business are making business decisions to hire non-full time workers to avoid having to pay them benefits, and those taking those jobs are avoiding buying their own insurance due to the expense. And then the rest of us have to pick up the bill.

 

[Maximus]

And yet it does, by the consent of the people. The people crafted a government to rule themselves and not be ruled by a foreign power. Law of rule voted on, judged, and enforced by the people. I'd rather abide by a government in which I have a voice than a corporation in which I have none.

Most of the people want the Health Care Law repealed...

Health Care Law

57% Favor Repeal of Health Care Law

Monday, May 09, 2011

Support for repeal of the national health care law has rebounded after falling below 50% for the first time since it was passed by Congress in March of last year.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters now at least somewhat favor repeal of the law. Thirty-six percent (36%) oppose repeal. The new findings include 44% who Strongly Favor repeal of the measure and 26% who are Strongly Opposed. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

There's got to be a solution to get the people that need coverage, deserve coverage, but can't get it, without going to nationalized healthcare. I have no idea how accurate the numbers below are from Senator Risch's study, but i think his point is valid. There are a number of people that are uninsured, that have options, but choose not to use them. Another large portion of the uninsured aren't legally eligible. The portion of Americans without options is a small percentage that we need to address, but not by forcing a trillion dollar nationalized program on everyone.

Breakdown of the Uninsured

Uninsured Breakdown

One of the many factors leading to health care reform has been a concern for the uninsured. While it is important we find ways to help those who need and want health insurance but cannot afford it, we must take our time to engage in deliberate and careful discussions to ensure any plan we develop covers them and meets a host of other priorities as well.

The national news reminds us daily that there are some 47 million uninsured people or about 15-16% of our population, but what they do not tell you is who these people really are. The chart here shows there are many who choose not to be covered, those not legally eligible and some who have other available options. The percentage of the truly uninsured is far smaller and we should focus our attention on their needs.

 

[KI4MVP]

A recent national poll found 52 percent of Americans don't know enough about federal health care reform to understand how it affects themselves and their families

How many of the 57% who favor the repeal of health care law are also in the 52 percent who don't understand it?

The thing that really bugs me about the debate is the scare tactics that get used to confuse people.
- the government runs it? no, most people would still buy their insurance from private carriers
- canada has wait times for some procedures? So does the united states. Canada doesn't have people blocked all together like we do in the US.

And I can guarantee you one thing, the congressmen who plan to overturn the heath care reform act are not about to touch their own lifetime government healthcare for being members of congress.

Also, the conclusion of the above chart is wrong. It suggests that we shouldn't worry about the people who can presumably afford health insurance but don't have it. Those are the ones who leave the $49 billion in unpaid bills when they can't afford the emergency healthcare they end up requiring. And take the "individuals earning more than $75,000 group." why is it assumed all of them can afford healthcare. If that was all I earned I certainly couldn't pay our $1700/month premium or our $10,000 deductible.

 

[Maximus]

<iframe width='400' height='300' frameborder='0' scrolling='no' marginwidth='0' marginheight='0' src='http://www.thestar.com/videozone/embed/759795'></iframe>

Prime Minister Danny Williams heads to U.S. for heart surgery

OTTAWA–Danny Williams' decision to head south for heart surgery has sparked a furious debate on both sides of the border.

Member of Parliament, Belinda Stronach, went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

Updated Fri. Sep. 14 2007 7:57 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.

After waiting 3 years in Canada for hip replacement, this woman got her surgery in 2 weeks in the US.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bYOuURHCrmM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Maximus]

How many of the 57% who favor the repeal of health care law are also in the 52 percent who don't understand it?

What % of the people who favor it understand it?

 

[KI4MVP]

what about all of these people

[video=youtube;8GoFj8Fc9iM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GoFj8Fc9iM[/video]

 

[KI4MVP]

What % of the people who favor it understand it?

the scare tactics I see politicians against it use are meant to confuse people. Because of that I would expect that significantly more of the ones who don't understand it are against it.

 

[KI4MVP]

max - do you see anything wrong with this?

A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care;[67] the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

Some Canadians are coming to the US for faster healthcare, more americans are going to mexico for affordable healthcare.

 

[Maximus]

max - do you see anything wrong with this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

Some Canadians are coming to the US for faster healthcare, more americans are going to mexico for affordable healthcare.

I'd love to see what % of those were for cosmetic surgery....and for people chasing black market organs.

what about all of these people

As I've said in about every thread on health care, I think there needs to be significant changes...i just don't think Obama's trillion dollar govt program is the answer. We clearly need to find a solution for people like you and "cavman". By the way, I am/was "these people" in your video. My wife had a pre-existing condition, a transplant and the bills wiped me out. Had we lived in Canada, she never would have lived long enough for the surgery...that's a fact. So let's not act like I don't care about people that can't get coverage or that are in difficult situations. I'd be willing to bet that I've paid more medical bills than anyone on this site, so I understand the massive costs some incur. I just don't think nationalized healthcare is the answer.

 

[cavman]

I'd love to see what % of those were for cosmetic surgery....and for people chasing black market organs.



As I've said in about every thread on health care, I think there needs to be significant changes...i just don't think Obama's trillion dollar govt program is the answer. We clearly need to find a solution for people like you and "cavman". By the way, I am/was "these people" in your video. My wife had a pre-existing condition, a transplant and the bills wiped me out. Had we lived in Canada, she never would have lived long enough for the surgery...that's a fact. So let's not act like I don't care about people that can't get coverage or that are in difficult situations. I'd be willing to bet that I've paid more medical bills than anyone on this site, so I understand the massive costs some incur. I just don't think nationalized healthcare is the answer.

Hey thanks for reading my posts, I didn't think anyone really cared.

What is most upsetting for me is I know I would have a better quality of life in Canada, the UK, or France.

 

[DougHeil]

Hey thanks for reading my posts, I didn't think anyone really cared.

What is most upsetting for me is I know I would have a better quality of life in Canada, the UK, or France.

I feel for you. But I think you don't know that at all. What happens when that government in Canada tells you they can't no longer afford to have that care they have given you? It happens all the time in Canada and the UK and elsewhere. You don't have an alternative but to go back to the USA where there is competition and pretty much the market place sorts things out,.. well, to this point anyway.

 

[cavman]

I feel for you. But I think you don't know that at all. What happens when that government in Canada tells you they can't no longer afford to have that care they have given you? It happens all the time in Canada and the UK and elsewhere. You don't have an alternative but to go back to the USA where there is competition and pretty much the market place sorts things out,.. well, to this point anyway.

Doug I have no options here in the US. Medicaid or nothing. In Canada my only option would be Canada care, but I would also be aloud to work there and feel more like a man. I mean for being the greatest country on earth I don't understand why they keep cutting medicaid for me. Why all of a sudden I have to pay out of pocket to fix my wheelchair that will cost me 1500 dollars when I am not even aloud to work. I'm trying to get the money to order the parts, while also looking for a used chair. Until then I have to crawl like a child. I guess what I really need to do is go have some kids and then the welfare gods might help me. 2014 is when health care reform kicks in for me and I can get private insurance, you understand why I'm voting for Obama now right?

 

[Randolphkeys]

I usually wait until I have discussed my thoughts with my wife before posting on this thread, but I just have to ask: Why are we assuming the United States government will instantly have the same issues currently held by the Canadian government as soon as we nationalize health care? Who is to say our issues will more accurately mirror the Swiss or Italy?

For the record, I know of the shortcomings of Canada's health care system, which seems to be an issue of supply and demand. If the United States can take all of these foreign dignitaries into their hospitals, where is the supply and demand problem? We don't seem to have one, despite all of our other health care issues.

And as much as we enjoy bashing Canada's health care, the World Health Organization places Canada as #30 while the US lags behind at #37. In other words, it kinda sucks being extremely wealthy in Canada and having a health problem, but it just plain sucks to have a health problem in the United States.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

 

[Noonan]

Mitt Romney Haunted By Past Of Trying To Help Uninsured Sick People

BELMONT, MA—Though Mitt Romney is considered to be a frontrunner for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, the national spotlight has forced him to repeatedly confront a major skeleton in his political closet: that as governor of Massachusetts he once tried to help poor, uninsured sick people.

Romney, who signed the state's 2006 health care reform act, has said he "deeply regrets" giving people in poor physical and mental health the opportunity to seek medical attention, admitting that helping very sick people get better remains a dark cloud hovering over his political career, and his biggest obstacle to becoming president of the United States of America.

"Every day I am haunted by the fact that I gave impoverished Massachusetts citizens a chance to receive health care," Romney told reporters Wednesday, adding that he feels ashamed whenever he looks back at how he forged bipartisan support to help uninsured Americans afford medicine to cure their illnesses. "I'm only human, and I've made mistakes. None bigger, of course, than helping cancer patients receive chemotherapy treatments and making sure that those suffering from pediatric AIDS could obtain medications, but that's my cross to bear."

"My hope is that Republican voters will one day forgive me for making it easier for sick people—especially low-income sick people—to go to the hospital and see a doctor," Romney added. "It was wrong, and I'm sorry."

According to Romney, if he could do things over again, he would do everything he could to make certain that uninsured individuals got sicker and sicker until they died. Promising his days of trying to provide medical coverage to the gravely ill are behind him, Romney said that if elected president, he would never even think about increasing anyone's quality of life or trying to lower the infant mortality rate.

In addition, Romney repeatedly apologized for wanting to help people suffering from diabetes, Crohn's disease, and anemia.

"I don't know what got into me back then," Romney said. "Wanting to make sure people were able to have health insurance if they left their job. Providing a federally funded website so individuals could compare the costs of insurance providers. Making certain that somebody who earns less than 150 percent of the poverty level can receive the same health care coverage as me or any government official. All I can say is that I was young and immature, and I am not that person anymore."

"The only solace I can take is in the hope that some of the folks I helped were terminally ill patients who eventually withered away and died," Romney added.

Though Romney has apologized profusely, Beltway insiders said he would need to distance himself from his I-tried-to-help-sickpeople image. Sources noted that Romney's current promise to take away health care from anyone who can't afford it is a step in the right direction, but might not be enough.

"The major strike against Mitt Romney is that he not only tried to help people get medical care, he actually did help people get medical care," conservative columnist Jonah Goldberg said. "No other Republican in the field has that type of baggage. And in the end, in order to defeat President Obama, the GOP needs someone who has a track record of never wanting to help sick people."

Thus far, Romney is polling strongly in early primary states like New Hampshire and Iowa, but Republican strategists and voters agree that even in a general election, his sordid past would continue to dog him.

"I don't think I can vote for someone like that," Pennsylvania Republican Eric Tolbert said. "He says he's sorry, but how do I know that's the real Mitt Romney? What happens if he gets elected and tries to help sick people again?"

"I like Michele Bachmann now," Tolbert added. "Because what this country needs is a president who doesn't give a fuck about helping people."