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Vizquel Has an Outside Shot at 3,000 Hits

Discussion in '(MLB) Cleveland Indians' started by sgm405, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    Omar has been playing well as of late, and has taken control of the starting 3B job for the White Sox. He's already matched his hit total from 2009, and is on pace to finish with 108 hits this season, which would put him at 2,812, 188 hits away from the magic number.

    To reach 3,000, Vizquel would have to average 94 hits a year if he played two more, 62 hits a year if he played 3 more years, or 47 hits over 4 more years. He doesn't mind coming off the bench and said he enjoys it no matter what.

    I wonder if Vizquel will take aim at 3,000, which would put to rest any doubt of his Hall of Fame credentials.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Gunther

    Gunther ...back on the weed...

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    Possible. He still plays well and has value in the league. Two big obstacles:

    1. Injuries. The older you get, the more likely you get injured trying to play a boys game. Omar has been fortunate in this respect so far in his career.

    2. Opportunity. It is doubtful that he is able to play two more years full time, IMO. Therefore, he would have to play almost every day next season, and I don't know who would be willing to take a risk on a 44 year old everyday infielder. Probably not gonna happen. That means playing part time in a utility role, and he would probably have to play at least three years injury-free and at a reasonable productivity level offensively to get to 3000.

    Love the guy and would love to see him do it, but the odds are against him at this point.
     
  3. CornerThree

    CornerThree 13-7-9-14

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    I think that him getting to 3000 hits really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things. I don't think he's particularly a hall of famer, but I'm not going to complain if he makes it eventually.

    Career OPS+ of 83.
    11 gold gloves, although at advanced metrics glance, several of these are questionable.

    His longevity is very impressive.
     
  4. AZ_

    AZ_ Hall-of-Famer

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    Of course, often times advanced defensive metricts tend to contradict one another...so people will have a hard time taking either of them seriously.

    I consider myself a pretty avid statistician as far as baseball goes and I even have a hard time lending some of them credibility.

    Are we really apt to believe Asdrubal Cabrera is a -22 UZR guy?...I for one, having seen him play regularly, don't believe he is a detriment defensively.
     
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  5. CornerThree

    CornerThree 13-7-9-14

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    I personally hate defensive metrics. But in a guy like Vizquel, people are going to be trumpeting the fact that he has 11 gold gloves.

    I'd say he's probably equal parts Dave Concepion and Ozzie Smith.

    He'd probably be a HOF lock if he did backflips, that much is certain :)
     
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  6. Wulfgar1224

    Wulfgar1224 Situational Stopper

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    Omar was always one of my favorites. But, I've never thought of him as a great hitter or Hall of Famer. I agree that the odds are against him getting to 3000. But, you have to be impressed with the shape he's kept himself in for all these years.
     
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  7. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    That quote makes about as much sense as your avatar. A player getting 3,000 hits makes him a lock to be a HOFer, so yeah, it matters.
     
  8. CornerThree

    CornerThree 13-7-9-14

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    If Harold Baines got 134 more hits, he would have been a hall of famer?
    So if Fred McGriff had hit those extra 7 homers, he'd have been a HOFer too?

    At this point in his career, it should be a situation where a voter knows whether or not they think Vizquel is a hall of fame player. If it really takes some dumb random number like 3000 in order to clinch someone's decision, then that person doesn't deserve a vote.

    He's a notch above replacement level talent these days. It's basically an indictment of the WhiteSox that he's getting at bats at the major league level.

    And the TinMan has no heart. Much like some dude that used to play here in cleveland. So it actually makes a lot of sense.
     
  9. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    The only guys with 3,000 hits that aren't in are Pete Rose, Craig Biggio, and Raffy Palmeiro. Rose is banned, Biggio isn't eligible yet (but will get in), and Palmeiro will miss because of PED's.

    Yes, Baines would've been a HOFer with 3,000, and yes, McGriff's HOF candidacy would have greatly improved had he hit 500. I didn't say it SHOULD matter, but it does. The voting is certainly flawed.

    As for "TinMan", your avatar tells me that you're not somebody that has a level-headed perspective on the guy and his policies, so I'm not even getting into that with you.

    So back to topic - Vizquel getting 3,000 hits would certainly have a huge impact on him making the HOF.
     
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  10. DougHeil

    DougHeil The LeFraud Interaction

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    People really question Omar being a HOF'er? Of course he gets in.
     
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  11. AanandM7

    AanandM7 Missing the 2003 Draft

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    Three Things:

    (1) I agree that 3000 hits, an arbitrary number, shouldn't be some magical password into the HOF, but I guess the voters need some objective standard for assessing candidates. I firmly believe that Omar should be inducted. We focus on offensive numbers for the HOF, but think how many runs Omar has saved with his range, in addition to how incredible he made the game look. Steve Nash will be in the HOF one day, but Shane Battier won't. Maybe we should really look at the big picture. At any rate, getting 3000 hits demonstrates that Omar was an all-around player; he was great in one facet of the game, and a legend in another.

    (2) I have to agree that Ron's avatar is somewhat inaccurate. Coupled with accusations of being a Communist and Facist, Obama has been labeled three largely conflicting ideologies. It would be like if someone called me a Christian, a Muslim, and a Buddhist. Certain policies could be more "liberal" than others, but that doesn't make it socialist. Of course, our current politics dictate that those we disagree probably embody our worst enemies so Liberals are socialists, commies and nazis, and conservatives are racists, KKK, and well, Nazis. Makes perfect sense if you have no idea what the ideology means.

    (3) More on the avatar. Can anyone still believe Heath Ledger is dead? I'm still upset about itm
     
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  12. bigjmac0815

    bigjmac0815 Banned

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    i'd like to bring him back if he decides to play after this season
     
  13. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    Post of the day:thumbup:
     
  14. sgm405

    sgm405 NBA Starter

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    The perfect scenario would be bringing him in on a contending 2012 Indians team as a part time player and him getting his 3,000 hit at home during the Indians' 2012 World Championship season. Hey, we can dream, right?:)
     
  15. The Oi

    The Oi Or Also Schtick

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    The best way to figure out whether he's HOF-worthy is to look at the standards set for SS's making the HOF.

    Hitting-wise, Omar is statistically better in all categories except SB when compared to Ozzie Smith and Luis Aparicio, who are considered two of the best SS's of all time.

    The only HOF SS's that have more hits than him are Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken and Robin Yount. There's also only 4 HOF'ers with more runs than Omar, and Omar is a sure-fire bet to pass John Ward who had only 8 more than Omar's current number.

    Three all star games, and 11 gold gloves, 9 of which were consecutive makes Omar a tough one to keep out.

    The issues with Omar are no rings and a below average post-season career.
     
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  16. Shakezoula

    Shakezoula Will Settle For Gordon

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    He's arguably the best fielder of all-time. There is no question he gets in. Period.
     
  17. CornerThree

    CornerThree 13-7-9-14

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    Points 2 and 3.

    I actually thought that my avatar was the tin-man from the wizard of oz. After the game 5 debacle I thought i made it my avatar, but it was my profile picture instead. I had turned off all board images and avatars several years ago, as I primarily view the board on my phone. I would have changed the obama joker image a long long time ago if I realized i was still using it. There was at least 6-8 months I didn't visit here last year....too many Amare Safari type posts/run on threads.

    It's actually pretty funny now that I look at what you guys were saying, and I thought you were talking about something totally different :) SGM had to be like WTF?
     
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  18. The Common Man

    The Common Man NBA Starter

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    I'd be shocked if he didn't get in, but baseball writers are so fucking stupid and old school that even if he does get in, odds are he won't live to see it, especially considering his age.

    Robbie Alomar, arguably the second baseman of all time didn't get in first ballot. Apparently what he does in the next year though will change the career he had?

    The saddest part about this thread is I would have unquestionably rather seen Omar as our shortstop/3B for the better part of this past decade than that fat piece of shit Jhonny Peralta.
     
  19. PIP

    PIP Orange and Blue Staff Member

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    Rings mean nothing in baseball...Which is what drives me nuts with so called "baseball purists"... Old men who look at numbers..

    There is zero emphasis placed on winning unless you won "300" games as a pitcher....

    Omar will get in down the road unless the criteria changes drastically...

    Roberto Alomar got screwed IMO... Best 2nd baseman of all time and he has to wait.... His '99 and '01 seasons are unreal...
     
  20. Gimme Some Mo

    Gimme Some Mo All-Star

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    Rings shouldn't mean as much in baseball as they do in football or basketball. One guy in baseball can't even come close to making as big an impact as one guy can in the other two sports.

    I think Omar should get in based on his glove alone. The hitting is just gravy.
     

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