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LeBron James

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Lebron looks off I will concede it. Remember, Lebron is a creature of habit. The heat started 8-9 his first year. I think all of this will be quickly forgotten 25 games in.

Once Lebron knows the offense, and his teammates tendencies he will pick things up where he left off.
 
There's a happy medium between lebron shooting 12 shots for 11 points and lebron shooting 40 times for 40+ points.
Let's go down that stupid road though. Let's say LBJ went out there and shot 40 times, played 40+ minutes and scored 45 points and the team pulled out a win. What in the hell does that mean in the long run? Not a thing other than make this insane fan base not worry needlessly for a night. Big deal. It's not sustainable and it isn't a style that's going to lead to a title. The only way we can win a championship is if players on this team understand that stand around, pound the rock iso ball doesn't work and to change their ways. Bailing the team out by taking over the 3rd game of the season means a lot less than breaking bad habits.
 
There's a happy medium between lebron shooting 12 shots for 11 points and lebron shooting 40 times for 40+ points.

Except the post I was referring to compared LeBron to what Kobe did tonight and saying LBJ was a coward while Kobe was some sort of hero. And Kobe, being the hero that he is, shot 40 damn shots (and lost).
 
This got downvoted? I'll join you. I know he's definitely not in my top 5 of all time.
Yeah, starting to not like the whole down voting thing. Thought it was funny to put the dumb on obvious trolls/bandwagoners/people who begged not to be down voteed, but I'm legitimately curious why it's dumb to say lebrons not a top 5 all time great. Legendary player, but not at that level IMO.
 
Except the post I was referring to compared LeBron to what Kobe did tonight and saying LBJ was a coward while Kobe was some sort of hero. And Kobe, being the hero that he is, shot 40 damn shots (and lost).

I took you out of context then.

Still, even though we added love, our big projection as an elite team is largely based on getting the best player in the world. I don't think that lebron playing like dogshit is somehow helping our teams development.
 
I took you out of context then.

Still, even though we added love, our big projection as an elite team is largely based on getting the best player in the world. I don't think that lebron playing like dogshit is somehow helping our teams development.

I have no idea, but this is what I imagine is going through his mind. He knows he can go out and dominate to the point that this team will win 50+ games even with bad habits existing. But it's not enough to win a title and in order to win a title Kyrie has to eliminate some of the habits he's developed and the best way to do it is to let him drown trying to go And-1 over and over again. If LBJ rescues the game does Kyrie learn anything?

Again, no idea whether or not that's actually what happened tonight but reading his quotes I think it's possible.
 
This got downvoted? I'll join you. I know he's definitely not in my top 5 of all time.

Let's leave that open to debate (statistically he certainly is), sure expand it to top 10. My post and the point of my post was to point out how ridiculous 6kiss's post was. We can narrow it down to a certain number at a later time, but his claims are disingenuous

Lebron is without a shadow of a doubt one of the best players of all time. He's right, we are spoiled.

Im glad hes back but Lebron is seriously one of the most overrated players to ever play the game. He just lacks what all the greats had, a heart and killer instinct. How hes not going out there and shredding teams game after game is beyond me. Hes constantly taking horrible fade-aways when he could have easy layups, hes not pushing the ball, and he just doesnt look like he gives a shit out there. Just embarrassing play to start a hyped season.
 
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Without question? No way. I wouldn't even say he's without question top ten all time.

Statistically speaking, it's very difficult to say he's not top 5, and just about impossible to say he's not top 10. Along with the 4 MVP awards, the finals MVP, the winning %, the 2 titles and 5 finals appearances, and the raw stats, advanced metrics clearly make a case for him for being right at the top.

  • 2nd all-time in career PER
  • 4 of the top 11 PER seasons, one of only two players with four seasons of 30+ PER, with a peak PER nearly at the top of the list
  • 4 of the top 11 WS/48 seasons, with the highest non-center WS/48 season in NBA history, higher than Jordan's; along with Kareem and Jordan, the only player to have multiple .300+ WS/48 seasons
  • 4 of the top 10 VORP seasons, including 2nd highest and 4th highest, 3rd in all-time VORP
  • 5 of the top 10 best box score plus/minus seasons with the 2 best seasons and the all-tine career leader in box score plus/minus
  • tremendous multiple RAPM seasons in which the numbers suggest that in his prime, he has had as big of a positive impact in the games he has played as any player ever.
  • at 29, he has the fourth highest total playoff win shares
 
I think he's top ten but it's not impossible to say he isn't. Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kobe and maybe a few others can be argued over him. He's definitely not top five for me.
Statistically speaking, it's very difficult to say he's not top 5, and just about impossible to say he's not top 10. Along with the 4 MVP awards, the finals MVP, the winning %, the 2 titles and 5 finals appearances, and the raw stats, advanced metrics clearly make a case for him for being right at the top.

  • 2nd all-time in career PER
  • 4 of the top 11 PER seasons, one of only two players with four seasons of 30+ PER, with a peak PER nearly at the top of the list
  • 4 of the top 11 WS/48 seasons, with the highest non-center WS/48 season in NBA history, higher than Jordan's; along with Kareem and Jordan, the only player to have multiple .300+ WS/48 seasons
  • 4 of the top 10 VORP seasons, including 2nd highest and 4th highest, 3rd in all-time VORP
  • 5 of the top 10 best box score plus/minus seasons with the 2 best seasons and the all-tine career leader in box score plus/minus
  • tremendous multiple RAPM seasons in which the numbers suggest that in his prime, he has had as big of a positive impact in the games he has played as any player ever.
  • at 29, he has the fourth highest total playoff win shares
 
I think he's top ten but it's not impossible to say he isn't. Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kobe and maybe a few others can be argued over him. He's definitely not top five for me.

Yes, argued by some subjective criteria, i.e., "having a killer instinct," "being a true alpha," etc., or some other subjective things, but empirically, it's very difficult to make a case for 5 players greater let alone 10.
 
Yes, argued by some subjective criteria, i.e., "having a killer instinct," "being a true alpha," etc., or some other subjective things, but empirically, it's very difficult to make a case for 5 players greater let alone 10.
How many of the all time greats did you observe play like you do with LeBron and the players of this era??
 
Nothing more than growing pains


Hopefully the champ stays with us through these rough times

It must be tough being out there with dudes who don't know anything about winning basketball
 
Yes, argued by some subjective criteria, i.e., "having a killer instinct," "being a true alpha," etc., or some other subjective things, but empirically, it's very difficult to make a case for 5 players greater let alone 10.
Not really, you're criteria is just as selective. Lebron might snag that fifth spot solely based on peak behind Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, and wilt but that's very debateable. He has the career resume based on MVPs, but is lacking in championships. He will probably get their but you can't say for certain about longevity. Add to that a numbernof embarrassments not usually seen in a top player. To me he's somewhere between 8-12. Really don't understand how that's some sort of insult to lebron.
 
I get what LeBron is trying to do, but I'm not a fan of "leaders" who preach. If he really wants are youngins to play a certain way, he should be leading by example. Right now, Waiters is basically mirroring Bron's effort. Terrible leadership style, imo.
 

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