What are the Cavs going to do at C?

[red.]

Who do you see in it? I looked through a lot of lists to get to the first post that started this. Maybe that's true- who is out there?

I don't know. I looked through also and it was just filled w/ a lot of C's.

 

[cdt]

Trade our 2012 pick for big Z.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

If you look at Byron Scott's teams, they aren't exactly loaded with centers. Chandler was his best one and he averaged 11.8 points and 11.7 rebounds in his best season under Scott. Of course, Chandler is a defensive monster and those numbers are from 35 minutes per game. If you add three minutes per game on to Varejao then he'd be at about 10ppg and 10rpg. Playing with Irving and/or Davis should increase the points numbers at least as Varejao should play well in the pick and roll - something we haven't been all that good at running without a true PG. I think Varejao can get up to around 12ppg and 10rpg with the current PGs. He's a good defender at C and should rotate very well with Tristan Thompson there. Thompson is very likely to add muscle during his NBA career, so I see him gaining some weight and bulk while maintaining mobility. But Varejao and Thompson may already combine to prove to be monsters int he paint on defense.

And there are a lot of Cs possibly available in next year's draft. So depth can be added while we look at Erden this year and see if Hollins puts it together at all (not expected, but a good season, if there is one, would make him valuable at the trade deadline to a contender).

Varejao is under contract for four more years at a reasonable price. He likely will be more effective on offense next year than he's ever been. And we have to see what Thompson can develop at PF on the offensive end.

We have a lot of interesting players to take a look at. See how Varejao plays with real PGs. See if Erden is anything that can contribute, even possibly succeed Varejao at C. See how Thompson can develop. See if Samardo can continue to grow and be a nice PF that can come off the bench. Casspi still can grow and may function much better in Scott's system. And Gee is a hard worker who got better with each successive month last year, putting together a strong April to close the season.

 

[Triumph36]

I honestly don't know what your views are on a lot of these issues exactly...I just blundered into this thread and was blasted with a cloud a uninformed posts.

I guess I just don't know why TT is being torn down when you look at him, his numbers, physical measurements etc in a draft that didn't have much in terms of any of those things. He simply wasn't Jonas or some other name that got said a lot before the draft and therefore is considered a bad pick by more than a few. He could be, but he seems more hit than miss.

Now, if Jonas was picked I wouldn't be up, I wouldn't be down...I would be clueless, so I would wait. But he wasn't picked so I don't care....but I keep reading sure opinions on a player that is irrelevant to me now as a Cavs fan. I can't figure why.

It's mostly because of who they passed on to get him.

Finding big centers who can act as a foundation of a team is incredibly difficult. The Cavs had one on the board, one who does the EXACT same things their actual pick does except he does some things even better and comes at a premium position. But they passed. Like Smooth said, they had the opportunity to get their future PG and C in this draft, then focus on the 2-4 positions in the next draft which has TONS of options at those positions.

Instead, they picked a one dimensional player (and unfortunately it is the wrong dimension) who plays at a position that is easy to fill while simultaneously creating a problem at center because of the fit.

Cole Aldrich seems like he could be a long term center if we could get him out of OKC where he is trapped on the bench.

If OKC still wants Boobie, I would start with him as an offer along with a pick from our collection.

OKC doesn't need Gibson anymore and if they traded for him he too would be trapped on the bench.

 

[The Hill]

The buy-out was looked into extensively. Jonas and his team never gave the Cavs a clear, definitive answer. It's reasonable to wonder whether he gave Toronto a different answer. It's not reasonable to wonder whether the Cavs did their due diligence.

I have wondered about this too. Jonas is represented by Leon Rose. No. 6 is also represented by Leon Rose. It's possible that this was their way of passive-aggressively sticking it to Dan Gilbert.

 

[AMC]

It's mostly because of who they passed on to get him.

Finding big centers who can act as a foundation of a team is incredibly difficult. The Cavs had one on the board, one who does the EXACT same things their actual pick does except he does some things even better and comes at a premium position. But they passed. Like Smooth said, they had the opportunity to get their future PG and C in this draft, then focus on the 2-4 positions in the next draft which has TONS of options at those positions.

Instead, they picked a one dimensional player (and unfortunately it is the wrong dimension) who plays at a position that is easy to fill while simultaneously creating a problem at center because of the fit.
OKC doesn't need Gibson anymore and if they traded for him he too would be trapped on the bench.

If they are both trapped on the bench then wouldn't it be an even swap? :chuckles:

 

[Zone]

For nearly the past year, everyone's been saying we've gotta follow the OKC model. Can we look at why they have 2 players that don't seemingly complement each other (at least offensively) with Ibaka at PF and Perkins at Center?

Why are they able to do that? Because they have great scorers/playmakers at the PG, SG, and SF spots?

While I'm a firm believer in your bigs playing complementary roles to each other, it's not written in stone that it's the rule.

Maybe that's a way of perceiving what we'll be looking to get at the Center spot? Granted, it works pretty well to have an elite scorer in Durant and someone a notch below that in Westbrook (with other guys like Harden).

Point is ... maybe there are some guys out there that would fit what we'll ultimately look for ... just need to see how things shake out first

I don't think C should be a huge concern as of right now. We have 2 6'11 guys in Andy and Erden and a 6'10 guy in Samuel's. That's enough size to play most centers in the league not named Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum. Eventually we'll have to find a good C. I hope the Clippers screw up with DeAndre Jordan because I love that kid.

Who's 5 inch heels did Samardo borrow to get that 6'10 measurement?

 

[Silky Smooth]

Who's 5 inch heels did Samardo borrow to get that 6'10 measurement?

I thought he was 6'10. At least he looked like he was 6'10 on the court. What is he 6'8?

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

This is why the TT pick upset me... Not so much because I think TT is a bad player or will be a bad player but because C is more important positionally and a lot harder to find...

The other thing that is very noticeable when looking at the 2012 & 2011 draft classes is that the strengths and weaknesses were the complete opposite of one another and if the Cavs played their cards right, they would be setting themselves up in a great position... The 2011 class was a strong center and point guard class while the wings and forwards were a bit weak... The 2012 class is a weak center and point guard class while it's excellent at the wing and forward positions... If the Cavs could have came away with Irving & a center that would be sitting in a lot better position then they currently are in my mind.. They're still in a position to grab a good wing player, that didn't matter either way, but taking a PF might hurt them... We'll see...

In addition to all of that: it's hard enough finding a good center but finding a center that compliments TT will be harder because TT possess the skill set of most centers... The centers that fit with TT are hard to come by and why I worry he might be relegated to a 3rd big man role which isn't bad but not what you fully expect at #4...

The 2012 class isn't going to producing any worthwhile centers, so it's likely the Cavs take a wing player and hope for Drummond in 2013...

This post warms my heart

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

More second guessing. Really, who saw Toronto taking Jonas V at 5? I would have thought that Vesely or Thompson would have been who they wanted. Wouldn't be surprised if Cavs drafted Thompson thinking the Raptors would take him with Jonas V dropping a few spots where they might be able to try using the TPE to get him (like at #8 from the Pistons). Who knows what really happened?

All I know is Toronto has Bargnani and Jonas V and not much at PF. And Bargnani is a big investment over the next several years, so either Toronto will look to move him in favor of Jonas V or they'll try to move Jonas. I doubt they go with a twin tower configuration with both starting.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Cole Aldrich and Aaron Gray on this team would really help any opposing team take away Irvings strength.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Honestly, I don't think I care too much about the idea that we should have taken a Center because of positional importance. All of us talked endlessly about using a BPA philosophy in regards to the draft.

I'm only upset with not selecting Jonas if he ends up being a better player than Tristan. If Thompson ends up being a superior player, he was the right pick, no questions asked. I also don't subscribe to the idea that it will be harder to find a Center to pair with him. Thompson's very fluid with the ball and moves very well and is more dynamic than the centers you mention whose skill-set he "shares". He just has to work extremely hard on developing a jump-shot. Many players are successfully able to do it, and if the Cavs believe in his work ethic he should be able to develop that type of game as well. There's no real pattern in the league where you need to acquire a certain type of Center a certain type of way. NBA contenders and champions all get their centers from different types of transactions and they get all types of different centers. The key is having quality players in the middle. PF's, C's, back-ups all of which can play team defense, rebound, and control the paint on both ends of the floor.

I still would have taken Jonas because in my opinion we was the BPA, but Chris Grant decided to maybe make the most important decision he will have to make as a General Manager by using the 4th pick to take Tristan Thompson. If he did that because he felt that Thompson will be a better player than Valanciunas, then I can't fault him for it until he's proven wrong.

 

[Triumph36]

If they are both trapped on the bench then wouldn't it be an even swap? :chuckles:

Trading a big for a small is bad tho!

For nearly the past year, everyone's been saying we've gotta follow the OKC model. Can we look at why they have 2 players that don't seemingly complement each other (at least offensively) with Ibaka at PF and Perkins at Center?

Why are they able to do that? Because they have great scorers/playmakers at the PG, SG, and SF spots?

While I'm a firm believer in your bigs playing complementary roles to each other, it's not written in stone that it's the rule.

Maybe that's a way of perceiving what we'll be looking to get at the Center spot? Granted, it works pretty well to have an elite scorer in Durant and someone a notch below that in Westbrook (with other guys like Harden).

Point is ... maybe there are some guys out there that would fit what we'll ultimately look for ... just need to see how things shake out first

They are able to do that because Ibaka has already improved his spot up jumper by leaps and bounds.

More second guessing. Really, who saw Toronto taking Jonas V at 5? I would have thought that Vesely or Thompson would have been who they wanted. Wouldn't be surprised if Cavs drafted Thompson thinking the Raptors would take him with Jonas V dropping a few spots where they might be able to try using the TPE to get him (like at #8 from the Pistons). Who knows what really happened?

All I know is Toronto has Bargnani and Jonas V and not much at PF. And Bargnani is a big investment over the next several years, so either Toronto will look to move him in favor of Jonas V or they'll try to move Jonas. I doubt they go with a twin tower configuration with both starting.

Casey has basically said Bargs isn't playing center going forward.

 

[Silky Smooth]

Honestly, I don't think I care too much about the idea that we should have taken a Center because of positional importance. All of us talked endlessly about using a BPA philosophy in regards to the draft.

I'm only upset with not selecting Jonas if he ends up being a better player than Tristan. If Thompson ends up being a superior player, he was the right pick, no questions asked. I also don't subscribe to the idea that it will be harder to find a Center to pair with him. Thompson's very fluid with the ball and moves very well and is more dynamic than the centers you mention whose skill-set he "shares". He just has to work extremely hard on developing a jump-shot. Many players are successfully able to do it, and if the Cavs believe in his work ethic he should be able to develop that type of game as well. There's no real pattern in the league where you need to acquire a certain type of Center a certain type of way. NBA contenders and champions all get their centers from different types of transactions and they get all types of different centers. The key is having quality players in the middle. PF's, C's, back-ups all of which can play team defense, rebound, and control the paint on both ends of the floor.

I still would have taken Jonas because in my opinion we was the BPA, but Chris Grant decided to maybe make the most important decision he will have to make as a General Manager by using the 4th pick to take Tristan Thompson. If he did that because he felt that Thompson will be a better player than Valanciunas, then I can't fault him for it until he's proven wrong.

That's really all I ask for. Don't judge the move until it has been proven a fail. I think everybody wanted Jonas and for good reasons but he's a Raptor and Thompson is a Cavalier. If anybody asks me I can see Thompson being Amare. Amare's offense is all facing up and beating people with his quickness. I've seen Thompson beat other bigmen off the dribble because he's quicker. His jumper is what needs to improve a lot. Just give him time.

 

[Triumph36]

If anybody asks me I can see Thompson being Amare. Amare's offense is all facing up and beating people with his quickness. I've seen Thompson beat other bigmen off the dribble because he's quicker. His jumper is what needs to improve a lot. Just give him time.

woah now lets not get carried away here