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Who Should Be the Franchise Four for the Cleveland Indians?
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Steve_424
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My picks are the following:
Bob Feller - If he didn't lose several seasons to the war, he'd be one of the Top 5 starting pitchers of all-time. Even with missing that time, he's among MLB's greatest pitchers of all-time and is arguably the greatest starter the Indians have ever seen. He loved being a Cleveland Indian, even wearing an Indians jersey to his high school graduation. Bonus points for doing something almost zero players today would do - turn down fame and fortune to voluntarily enter the military during a major war.
Larry Doby - Doby doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. He broke the American League's color barrier just three months after Jackie broke through, and went through the same things Jackie did. He was the 2nd black manager as well. He was an integral part of the the 1948 World Series win, becoming the first black player to hit a home run in the Series.
Tris Speaker - One of the greatest center fielders of all-time and arguably the best in franchise history. Tris helped the Indians to their first ever pennant as a player-manager in 1920.
Lou Boudreau - He guided the 1948 Indians to their last World Series title as player-manager. Oh yeah, he also won the American League MVP Award.
Just Missed
Nap Lajoie - The first true player-manager, Nap is the best 2B in Cleveland history. They even named the team after him for awhile!
Bob Feller - If he didn't lose several seasons to the war, he'd be one of the Top 5 starting pitchers of all-time. Even with missing that time, he's among MLB's greatest pitchers of all-time and is arguably the greatest starter the Indians have ever seen. He loved being a Cleveland Indian, even wearing an Indians jersey to his high school graduation. Bonus points for doing something almost zero players today would do - turn down fame and fortune to voluntarily enter the military during a major war.
Larry Doby - Doby doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. He broke the American League's color barrier just three months after Jackie broke through, and went through the same things Jackie did. He was the 2nd black manager as well. He was an integral part of the the 1948 World Series win, becoming the first black player to hit a home run in the Series.
Tris Speaker - One of the greatest center fielders of all-time and arguably the best in franchise history. Tris helped the Indians to their first ever pennant as a player-manager in 1920.
Lou Boudreau - He guided the 1948 Indians to their last World Series title as player-manager. Oh yeah, he also won the American League MVP Award.
Just Missed
Nap Lajoie - The first true player-manager, Nap is the best 2B in Cleveland history. They even named the team after him for awhile!
macbdog
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Maybe I'm being too quick but I like Feller, Lajoie, Speaker and Thome.
Feller speaks for himself. One of the best pitchers ever. Tris Speaker is also a legend. Jim Thome is the best power hitter this team has ever had- both in terms of longevity and production. Lajoie I picked over the others because of his standing as one of the greats of his era and the greatest free agent signing in Cleveland sports history before LeBron.
Doby was pretty good but I can't put him over the other 4. Averill is a borderline HOFer. Lou got in because of the wide role he assumed as a productive player/manager. If we are going to include Omar we might as well add in Kenny Lofton, Charles Nagy and Jeff Manto.
I also think Addie Joss should have been considered but that would be mildly embarrassing if so many of the Franchise Four came at the turn of the last century.
Feller speaks for himself. One of the best pitchers ever. Tris Speaker is also a legend. Jim Thome is the best power hitter this team has ever had- both in terms of longevity and production. Lajoie I picked over the others because of his standing as one of the greats of his era and the greatest free agent signing in Cleveland sports history before LeBron.
Doby was pretty good but I can't put him over the other 4. Averill is a borderline HOFer. Lou got in because of the wide role he assumed as a productive player/manager. If we are going to include Omar we might as well add in Kenny Lofton, Charles Nagy and Jeff Manto.
I also think Addie Joss should have been considered but that would be mildly embarrassing if so many of the Franchise Four came at the turn of the last century.
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Otsego Mar
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Carlos Santana
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Steve_424
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I'm expecting Feller, Doby, Thome, and Vizquel will be the ones selected tonight.
I think Thome and Vizquel are both great, Hall of Fame-worthy players. There's just a few things I can't get past:
1) The way Thome left. I know most don't blame him, but I think he handled it terribly. I don't want to get into this for the 392593834th time, but I'll just say I'm not over it.
2) In 232 career postseason at-bats, Thome hit .211. He had his moments, but he mostly struggled when it mattered most.
3) Omar is a borderline Hall of Famer, and although he's my favorite player of all-time and a guy I think will and should get in, I can't argue that he's Top 4 All-Time with the Tribe.
I think Thome and Vizquel are both great, Hall of Fame-worthy players. There's just a few things I can't get past:
1) The way Thome left. I know most don't blame him, but I think he handled it terribly. I don't want to get into this for the 392593834th time, but I'll just say I'm not over it.
2) In 232 career postseason at-bats, Thome hit .211. He had his moments, but he mostly struggled when it mattered most.
3) Omar is a borderline Hall of Famer, and although he's my favorite player of all-time and a guy I think will and should get in, I can't argue that he's Top 4 All-Time with the Tribe.
macbdog
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Some of you might want to go back and take a look at the numbers who keep ignoring Lajoie in favor of Doby. Larry Doby debuted at 23- 4 years before Averill ever saw the bigs. He was pretty much done at 35. Yes, he broke the color barrier and had a couple nice years in cavernous Cleveland Stadium. But Lajoie's best career comp was Honus Wagner. Guy had a 203 OPS+ when he was 29. That is flat-out dominant. When Doby's career was winding down at 35, Lajoie hit .384 with a 190 OPS+. I think you start this list with him, Speaker and Feller and debate away on no.4.
Seiklis
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As I'm a believer that the city matters far more than whatever league a team happened to be in
Bob Feller
Cy Young
Nap Lajoie
These 3 are on a separate planet from the rest of the list. Speaker should be as well as he played the majority of his career here and is considered one of the greatest CFs who has ever played. That said, his extra-curriculars weigh him down considerably. Speaker may of made up for his KKK membership somewhat by mentoring Doby and Easter in the late 40s and even being instrumental in helping Doby learn CF (Doby played 2nd base in the Negro leagues) but his treatment of Ray Chapman's death should disqualify him
Doby trumps Thome with his defense. Boudreau is a bit too up and down and I've always felt his managerial skill was overrated here (HoF manager Bill McKechnie was his bench coach) Jesse Burkett being one of the worst defensive players in the HOF slides him down. This is between Averill and Doby for me but Averill's ability to hit doubles as well as anyone in baseball history put him over the top.
My four for the city
Bob Feller
Cy Young
Nap Lajoie
Earl Averill
Bob Feller
Cy Young
Nap Lajoie
These 3 are on a separate planet from the rest of the list. Speaker should be as well as he played the majority of his career here and is considered one of the greatest CFs who has ever played. That said, his extra-curriculars weigh him down considerably. Speaker may of made up for his KKK membership somewhat by mentoring Doby and Easter in the late 40s and even being instrumental in helping Doby learn CF (Doby played 2nd base in the Negro leagues) but his treatment of Ray Chapman's death should disqualify him
Doby trumps Thome with his defense. Boudreau is a bit too up and down and I've always felt his managerial skill was overrated here (HoF manager Bill McKechnie was his bench coach) Jesse Burkett being one of the worst defensive players in the HOF slides him down. This is between Averill and Doby for me but Averill's ability to hit doubles as well as anyone in baseball history put him over the top.
My four for the city
Bob Feller
Cy Young
Nap Lajoie
Earl Averill
godfather
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