Winning > Tanking... All day..

[Jon]

It's not like Chris Grant likes top-5 picks ... he seems content to keep snagging guys projected to go around #10.

 

[Chris]

You know what happens less often? The best player in the game joining a team who's been absolutely pathetic for 3-4 straight years, regardless of how much young talent they have. There's nothing wrong with the Cavs demonstrating that they're not one of the worst 2-3 teams year in, year out. If this year we end up a bottom 3 team (just like the past 2 years), and we continue your strategy next year (4 years in a row as one of the worst few teams), it's hard to fathom any good free agent wanting to come here. If we really have THAT great of young talent, we're bound to creep up into the standings a bit this year, and even more next year.

I'm not some karma-loving, unrealistic fan who wants us to fight for the playoffs this year, who is fine with getting say the 12th pick in the draft. But I'm also not (an equally unrealistic) fan who wants us to blow for a 4 years straight (including next year) and just assume we'll luck out with some free agent coming here. That many terrible seasons in a row would tell me that our young talent just isn't that great. Or if somehow it were, we're never gonna be able to keep half a dozen plus young guys once they're off their rookie contracts.

Rather, I want to cheer on my team when it wins, and be thankful that we have so much going for us (a young super star, some other nice young pieces, a ton of draft picks, a ton of cap space flexibility, an owner so willing to spend, and a GM who demonstrates that he wins trades and that he's willing to explore making big moves (we most certainly were exploring the Bynum possibility, and fortunately we declined)).

If we only get a couple more fun wins, but end up with a top 3 chance at a #1 pick, I'll be excited. If we continue to impress and rack up some more wins, and end up with the #8 odds or so at the #1 pick, I'll still be excited. I'll be even more confident in our young guys, and just put my faith into some combination of the lottery gods helping us, Grant and his scouts identifying the best prospect regardless of where we're at (and we tend to pick guys projected at lower picks anyway), and using some assets to move up a few spots if we need to do so to nab the guy we want. Because if we want to be a contender, we can't solely rely on having the best odds at a top pick every year. We need a front office who knows what it's doing, and a bit of luck.

I don't expect them to be a bottom 3 team next year if they get a high pick this season. But who knows what trades will be made.

LeBron coming back is a special case, you can't really compare it to other situations. Everything we've heard indicates there is interest from both sides. This is for another thread but I think it has a very solid chance of happening.

 

[Huber.]

So now we are going to talk ourselves into not tanking so we can snab another role player at #8, hope that LeBron sees we are winning games in the second half of 2013 and comes back and saves us from mediocrity? Sounds like a solid plan. Next year was the year we were supposed to start learning how to win not this year.

 

[KI4MVP]

I've never denied that bringing LeBron back would give us the best shot at winning titles. That's basically a given.

But that said, we can't plan our future around him coming back. It's in our best interests to stockpile picks and young assets either to use ourselves or package in a deal.

I think we're doing a great job of balancing building a team while leaving the door open for LeBron to return. Right now we're entering the transition point between collecting assets to get good and collecting assets to stay good when we get there.

We had all of 4 first round picks in 7 years LeBron was here and we didn't even get a first round pick the year he left. We could enter the 2014-15 season with 8 first round draft picks, Andy, LeBron, all of our picks going forward plus 2 to 3 extra. Even if we don't land LeBron, that should make a pretty appealing destination for some other free agent.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

So now we are going to talk ourselves into not tanking so we can snab another role player at #8, hope that LeBron sees we are winning games in the second half of 2013 and comes back and saves us from mediocrity? Sounds like a solid plan. Next year was the year we were supposed to start learning how to win not this year.

Who said that? Our plan is to develop our young players, accumulate assets, maintain all sorts of flexibility, and strike when the iron's hot (via draft picks, trades, free agency - whatever combination it takes of those). The point is not to bitch and moan when we pick up a few victories due to the very guys we are developing. It's possible to both be excited when our young team wins, and root for us to do everything we can to improve our team.

 

[MYoung23]

21 wins, 26 wins, 31 wins. The difference in the NBA is cosmetic like I've written. Just like you should should always do enjoy each game for what it and continue to think long term.

In terms of this recent little Cavs stretch Kyrie Irving is still bailing the team out in the 4th quarter. Despite other elements of the team playing better he's done it each of their last 4 wins. He's shown true greatness but as a team they haven't found a sustainable way to win yet.

 

[MoFlo]

We're not going to go straight from bottom feeder to championship contender.

I dread to see this board when we grab a 4-6 seed in the playoffs.

 

[Chris]

We're not going to go straight from bottom feeder to championship contender.

I dread to see this board when we grab a 4-6 seed in the playoffs.

MYoung's post still stands. He's correct.

I agree with what you say as well, however nobody is asking for that to happen. If the Cavs grab a lower seed in the playoffs but have a core I think will develop into a title contending core with some experience, then I will be happy.

 

[MirORich]

Nobody wants a specific slot, they're just pleased with what the current developmental path for the young guys on the team means for the future as these guys are only going to get better and not stay rookies bad second year players forever. So I'm happy with however the rest of this season goes whether we win 20% of our remaining games or 50%, whereas you are actively rooting for them to win as few games as possible under the false pretense that all players taken 1-5 end up as stars and all players taken 6-12 end up as role players. Further more, as others here have illustrated, in just the past 6 years, three of the six #1 picks(oden, rose, kyrie) have come from lottery slots 6 and up. Additionally, the overall field is stronger this year than last and even if we win 40% of our remaining games(which I think is unlikely) we still will likely be in the 3-6 range come lottery time.

There seems too be a lot of underestimation from you about how all three avenues we have for the continuing accumulation of talent(draft, trade,fa) are about in as good shape as could possibly be.


But carry on....

Edit: sorry, saying "but carry on.." Is needlessly dismissive. Your opinion is just as valid, I just disagree with completely in that you somehow seem to think that if we end up with the 5th or 6th pick it will hamper or lessen out ability to put together a championship competing roster.

So now we are going to talk ourselves into not tanking so we can snab another role player at #8, hope that LeBron sees we are winning games in the second half of 2013 and comes back and saves us from mediocrity? Sounds like a solid plan. Next year was the year we were supposed to start learning how to win not this year.

 

[Rich]

Holy hell, the amount of whining about the Cavs winning games is annoying. The young guys are improving, and therefore we are winning. How ANYONE could say this is a bad thing is beyond me.

 

[The Process God]

If this was last season or the year before, I'd agree with you that I don't like too many wins. But there is no Jamison getting hot leading us to victory, there's no guys we know have no long term potential here leading us to victory.

The main reason we're winning is obviously Kyrie, but Dion & Tristan are right up there as well. My point is, these are guys we're expecting to have leading us to victories in the long term leading us to victories now

Obviously, nobody's saying we're close to championship level or even close to anything of the sort. And obviously, we're still a long ways away & still need more talent. However, I think what's crazy is people harping on this "tanking" when we have exciting basketball again. I have no problems winning as many games as we can, so long as Kyrie, Dion, Tristan, and all the guys we're expecting to keep long term, are leading us to those victories.

It's even worse. We've won the past 2 games partly because of two short-term potential guys (Speights and Ellington). Take them out, and we have two more losses. We CAN still do more to lose without slowing down the core's progression, and that's by trading at least Speights outta here ASAP.

 

[I.K.W.T]

It's even worse. We've won the past 2 games partly because of two short-term potential guys (Speights and Ellington). Take them out, and we have two more losses. We CAN still do more to lose without slowing down the core's progression, and that's by trading at least Speights outta here ASAP.

Some of you guys are completely ridiculous. Wanting to lose? Do more to lose? How the heck can you guys be "fans" of a team and root for them to lose? This board has so many people wanting the cavs to do as much as they can to lose, rather than trying to win. Completely ass backwards. You all should be ashamed.

Let the season play out. Do what you can in the draft afterwards.

"Hey we just acquired young, valuable talent, let's trade them so we can lose."

 

[Huber.]

We're not going to go straight from bottom feeder to championship contender.

I dread to see this board when we grab a 4-6 seed in the playoffs.

Not necessarily:

If we get a good player out of this draft will go from barely missing the playoffs next year / 8-7 seed to a #1 seed if LeBron joins the team in 2014. The East is that weak and depends on him that much.

 

[col63onel]

Some people act like the difference between the 8th pick and 2nd pick is the difference between getting another superstar.

I think it's more likely we our next "star" via a trade rather than a draft. And we have the ammo to do that regardless of where we pick in the lotto this year. So why not start winning now?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Some people act like the difference between the 8th pick and 2nd pick is the difference between getting another superstar.

I think it's more likely we our next "star" via a trade rather than a draft. And we have the ammo to do that regardless of where we pick in the lotto this year. So why not start winning now?

I think we're more likely to get our next "star" when LeBron James signs here in 2014.