Winning > Tanking... All day..

[Walter White]

Of course winning is better than tanking, but sometimes it takes tanking to get to winning.

 

[petes999]

In the end, it is what it is. Yet to get these close wins against Milwaukee and Toronto are meaningless. Kyrie isn't going to find his will for winning by making one-shot. He already has it. Remember winning two games would've pushed us tied for third last year with New Orleans to a three-way tie for six. So instead of the fourth pick we could've had the eighth pick. That would have been Terrence Ross instead of Waiters.

The big thing is finding that next big player. We have enough players and picks to be bench players who can become role starters. If the last two draft were stronger, and we had a Wade type player in Waiters for sure, then I wouldn't be worried about getting that third superstar as TT, Zeller or one of our future picks could become that type like Ibaka became for OKC behind Westbrook and Durant. Yet TT nor Waiters may become that second star. Getting a top-five player is critical. Winning and getting the eight pick will not really affect next year in our attitude to winning. Any momentum is slowed by the summer hiatus. Yet, getting Grant's high energy player that doesn't take the summer off is less likely at the eighth spot then the third or fifth spot. Having Waiters, TT, Irving, and a high energy pick that practice throughout the summer will keep and generate any momentum that we need. Yes, we could've gotten Drummond with the ninth pick last year, but Grant probably would not have drafted him because he wasn't convinced he would push himself to become better. That is the energy Grant wants to build around here, and having a high pick (top five) increases the probability he gets his guy whether that guy was the first or ninth on the draft board of other teams.

Remember, in the third year of the rebuild, the players we need are harder to find as they have to be Grant's and Byron type of player and now fit a hole around the pieces we do have. We are lucky to have assets to help move up to find that piece. Yet, I rather keep our assets to keep them available for when we need to fill the remaining piece or replace someone we lose due to the salary-cap.

 

[Stark]

Even if we go on a tear, and finish with like the sixth or seventh worst record in the league, who says it still won't turn into a 2-4 range?

For those that don't remember, the pick that got us Kyrie at #1 was originally supposed to be the eighth pick.

Step away from the ledge and enjoy the progress that this team seems to be making right now.

 

[metalman213]

a bird in the hand...

Id much rather have our young talented players develop into stars and win games than have them play sub par basketball and delay their development for an unproven prospect that might turn out to be a good player.

Besides, looking at history, the VAST majority of teams that become contenders do not come from perennial bottom dwelling. People will point at OKC, but in reality there are far more teams that just stay in the cellar and don't ever become contenders, Washington, Toronto, Sacramento, etc. People will point at treadmill teams like the Hawks, but there is not a single player on the Hawks near Kyrie's level, a genuine superstar. Looking at titles over the past decades, teams like LAL, Miami, Boston, San Antonio, etc. have completely dominated. These teams didn't rebuild like OKC did.

Anyways we are still a horrible team and will end up with a very high pick most likely. But theres no way I can root against our young players developing into high caliber players, and being a fan i legitimately enjoy every win and am super excited for the future.

 

[Jon]

It's one thing to hire some professional tank drivers like Ramon Sessions, Antawn Jamison, or CJ Miles ... but IMO it's unacceptable to fill out your rotation with guys your organization doesn't even believe belong in the league.

Maybe we can flip Mo Speights for something good before the deadline, but we're going to have to take some salary back, and hopefully that salary will be able to contribute something.

 

[Nathan S]

Not sure why we'd be so eager to deal this guy. He's 25, so he'll be right in his prime when we're hoping to contend, he has a jumpshot that opens up driving lanes, and he has the length and girth to defend the 5. He was trapped behind the Z-Bo/Gasol duo in Memphis so his per-game numbers look mediocre, but per minute he ranks 17th in scoring, 4th in rebounding, and 12th in blocks among power forwards this year. At the very least, I could see him playing a key role off the bench for years to come.

 

[Cavatt]

The craziest part is that the better these guys play the higher their trade value, and the more likely the Cavs will be to trade them instead of offering them new contracts. It is a weird situation. The press will call it a total tank effort. Maybe there will be talk of the expirings and them walking, but I doubt it.

I really like the fit of Speights, and he along with Ellington's defense and Livingston's playmaking ability make the 2nd unit dangerous every night against 2nd units. I think they will get offers that they really can't turn down unless their play completely falls off.

 

[Green Demon]

Not sure why we'd be so eager to deal this guy. He's 25, so he'll be right in his prime when we're hoping to contend, he has a jumpshot that opens up driving lanes, and he has the length and girth to defend the 5. He was trapped behind the Z-Bo/Gasol duo in Memphis so his per-game numbers look mediocre, but per minute he ranks 17th in scoring, 4th in rebounding, and 12th in blocks among power forwards this year. At the very least, I could see him playing a key role off the bench for years to come.

Sure if Speights was on a long term contract at what he is currently making then I think that most of us would be alright with him sticking around based on what he has showed so far. It comes down to being a Sessions type situation though, where at the end of the year if he keeps playing like he is he'll most likely not pick up his PO and enter the open market so that he can get paid.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Here are the scenarios:

1) Keep him the rest of the season and he impacts the team on the court for the better. Result: he declines player option and enters free agency and most likely is on a different team in 2013-14. He also gets you more wins which reduces the ping pong balls in the hopper. Final result: bad for the Cavs.
2) Keep him the rest of the season and he does nothing of substance to really matter in the standings or on the court. Result: he stays with the Cavs for $4.2 million. Draft result doesn't change but you have an inconsequential player on your team and owe him $4.2 million in 2013-14. Final result: at best neutral for the Cavs and you have less money to spend.
3) Trade him before the deadline. Result: maximize ping pong balls for the draft. Get something of future value (future 1st? Guy in Europe?) Final result: Neutral at worst potentially good if the compensation pans out. And if it turns out he loves Cleveland, and Cleveland wants to keep him, you could do that after this season if you rent him to another team for 3 months.

 

[Kizzle]

I love it when people say 1 player is gonna add or take away ping pong balls from the draft.lol

Take away ANY player but Kyrie, and our team is still at the same suck.lol Keeping Mo doesnt freak up our draft pick.lol We are a horrible team, were picking top 4 again regardlesso of what we do

 

[petes999]

Even if we go on a tear, and finish with like the sixth or seventh worst record in the league, who says it still won't turn into a 2-4 range?

For those that don't remember, the pick that got us Kyrie at #1 was originally supposed to be the eighth pick.

Step away from the ledge and enjoy the progress that this team seems to be making right now.

Just remember that for every time an 8th becomes a first, which we got lucky doing, the other 9 teams in back of lottery stay there. Not saying not to win, but in terms of development, do we need Irving gong off for 30 pts or starting to develop more assist making skills even if Waiters or TT miss it? Desn't help development if Waiters and Irving play best now just breaking down one on five where one has good game and beats a mediocre team other but don't learn how to play off one another.

Does it make sense to let Speights or Ell play most of 4th qtr. for their toughness if they aren't with us next year? Or, let Zeller get pushed around trying to implement Z's training against the best centers something he can't do in practice with V out.

 

[Cavatt]

Gilbert said in an interview that the Cavs won a coin flip against NO for half a ping pong ball, and if the Cavs had lost, they would have Anthony Davis. I think the team is going to be bad, and we will get a high pick no matter what. You can't predict the health of the team or other teams for that matter either.

 

[The Process God]

And according to Cavs fans Drummond should have gone #4... so what?

I'm talking the mock drafts, and if you go back to the ones that were actually based on what these guys did in school, you won't find Dion anywhere near #4, #5, or even #10.

As for Kyrie, we got him with a #8 pick that wasn't even our own. If you're in the lottery, you can win the lottery.

The idea of trading down and getting the guy you want and extra picks is great, but so far Grant hasn't pulled it off, so it doesn't seem a factor. There are too many things that can go wrong. For instance the Wizards had some interest trading up for Kanter, but he didn't fall to us. The Jazz didn't need yet another PF, but they acted on the perceived value that the Wiz saw.

What we were able to pull off was a trade-up move to get Zeller, and all our additional picks may help facilitate those.

But the mocks don't mean shit because they're not reality. Reality is what teams actually would have taken. It's pretty obvious that Dion was never going to go in the 20s or even survive past 10. Like I said, he could've been gone at 5 and probably no later than 7. Also, we got Kyrie with the number one pick, not the 8th pick. It was the 8th seed in the lottery, but we still needed to get that number one pick in order to get him. If you're saying that we value top 5 picks, then hell yeah did we value that pick. Also, just because we aren't able to trade down doesn't mean we're not trying. Even if we can't trade down, at least we're more secure in being able to get who we want. If we had traded down to, say, 6 and 11 with Portland in the 2012, we could've missed out on Dion.

 

[Tornicade]

Charlotte - 11-23 last 20 4-16
Wizards -11-32 last 20 6-14
Orlando - 14-29 last 20 4-16
Suns 15-30 last 20 3-17
New orleans 15-29 last 20 10-10

Cavs 13-32 last 20 8-12

of the bottom 2 teams the Cavs Have shown the 2nd most improvement over the course of 20 games. Followed by the wizards who should be improved just with the return of John Wall.

The Cavs are winning with the core of their build starting and look to continue their improvement as the starters gell and develop.

The benfit of the current bench is that it allows the Cavs to maintain their starting lineup and control their starters minutes.

the Cavs are essentially a lock to be one of the 6 wore teams in the league meaning the latest they would probably pick is 9th. Theres no guarantee the cavs would end up bottom three to guarantee the 4th pick even if they had not completed the Memphis trade.

as far as the value of the pick theres also no guarantee the top 9 pick will ever amount to anything.

so im not sure why people try to find bad things about the Cavs performing on the court.

Speights most likely will opt out to asign as a free agent unless he has a better chance of making more money signing an extension.(very doubtful). The Cavs will be in a good position to keep him if he does. Philadelphia and Memphis both traded him because neither could afford to keep him. The Cavs can. or they can trade him if the right offer comes through. its a win win situation.

People also seem to be ignoring that after this season cavs will most likely shift into a more ofa pick seller than a pick buyer and the picks they do keep will likely spend more time in d league than on the Cavs court their first season.

 

[DionWaters]

edit: personal attacks unnecessary. repost, rephrase.