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A closer look at Harrison Barnes

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MYoung23 said:
What is Harrison Barnes right now? He's a good but not great athlete who struggles to create his own shot, but isn't a great shooter and essentially doesnt do anything particularly well.
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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on Barnes right now.

As far as wing drafting goes, I'm inclined to lean towards athleticism, ball handling, and attitude over jump shooting. Jump shooting isn't a skill that translates from college to the pros as frequently as other skills. While it's a nice skill to have, I wouldn't bet a pick on it.
 
Some guys aren't efficient because they're the only guy who can create anything on their team and they put up a lot of bad shots. The thing is those guys usually have the great first step, the cross-over, the ball handling ability, the finishing moves, etc, that let them break down anyone trying to defend them.

If that described Barnes maybe we could over-look his FG% ... but can he do that? Can he consistently beat his man and demand double teams? Does he keep his head up and look to pass? Can he go left or right?
 
I don't think he struggles that much creating his own shot.

The thing is, when I see Barnes make a move, it looks like an NBA move. And despite his smooth stroke, he just misses those shots sometimes. But he has good form and he's shooting off the dribble. It's just a matter of time before a majority of those shots start falling, IMO.
 
harrison barnes reminds me a bit of derozan. their respectives games aren't very similar, as derozan is much more athletic and doesn't have nearly as good a jump shot, but they're long wings who were highly recruited out of HS while playing primarily on the inside. both had to transition their games to play more on the perimeter (derozan practically played like a PF at USC). and derozan was another guy the cavs were really looking at. he's also playing much better as a sophomore than as a rookie... maybe barnes just needs a couple of years to fully make the transition to the perimeter?
 
I'm not high on Barnes whatsoever... Rarely, if ever, do you see a guy who can't dominate on the college level come in and be a high level player in the NBA... Maybe a serviceable player, but certainly not one that comes in and can be a cornerstone player.... Obviously Marvin Williams is the comparison...

You see guys all the time that have a game that is more conducive for NBA basketball as opposed to college, such as Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer etc.. But at the very least they showed moments in college where they could be big time stars and in some of those cases it lead to the player being drafted in the lottery and in others they slipped to the later part of the 1st or out of the 1s all together....
As for Barnes, I just haven't seen anything yet that would suggest he's someone that you would want to build your squad around moving forward..
 
PIP said:
As for Barnes, I just haven't seen anything yet that would suggest he's someone that you would want to build your squad around moving forward..
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Well I don't think anyone wants to build around him, but rather build with him. I think we envision him as maybe a third option on a championship team.

Which doesn't speak all too highly about him going high in the draft, but then again, can we do better than that at the 8th pick? Hard to say.

I like that he has a good defensive reputation.
 
Well if the Cavs have a category titled: "3rd option" on their dry-erase board in the draft room and feel the need to fill that up, then I guess Barnes would be the man for that job.... Lets hope they don't have that catergory...:chuckles:
 
PIP said:
Well if the Cavs have a category titled: "3rd option" on their dry-erase board in the draft room and feel the need to fill that up, then I guess Barnes would be the man for that job.... Lets hope they don't have that catergory...:chuckles:
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Well yeah, but trying to get a potential first/second option out of the 8th pick is a little tricky, and inherently more risky, akin to swinging for the fences. So what is the better thing to do?
 
IWantAKouki said:
Well yeah, but trying to get a potential first/second option out of the 8th pick is a little tricky, and inherently more risky. So what is the better thing to do?
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Very rarely do you ever see a draft go accordingly, so I'm sure they will have some choices at their 2nd selection... Hell, Barnes might be the 3rd pick in the draft... Just cause he's slipping now it doesn't mean he'll slip on draft night...

I'm sure the Cavs will have a couple quality options to choose from with their 2nd pick... Personally, I want nothing to do with a perimeter player that not only lacks aggression, but lacks the ability to create his own shot... Now if he could shoot the ball exceptionally well, I would be more intrigued, but then again at that point we're looking at someone who could shoot and hopefully play defense and if he did all that, we might have a more athletic Shane Battier and even though that would be okay, I still want them to try to get a future all star with that pick.... Easier said than done, I know... But the sooner the Cavs get star talent the sooner they'll be playing meaningful games this time of year...
 
I like Harrison.....He has all the physical tools to be GREAT....BUt does he have the work ethic and skill?

We dont know.


If he turned into a Luol Deng that played D I would be happy....idc what anybody says, Luol has had a good career so far imo
 
Housh said:
I like Harrison.....He has all the physical tools to be GREAT....BUt does he have the work ethic and skill?

We dont know.


If he turned into a Luol Deng that played D I would be happy....idc what anybody says, Luol has had a good career so far imo
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Deng averaged 15.1 points on a 47% FG percentage and 7 boards a game in his one and done year at Duke
Barnes is averaging 13.9 on a 40% FG percentage and 5.6 boards a game so far. Barnes has to be one of the most inefficient players to get so much attention in a while. The last game where he hit the game winner was his first one in 5 games where he shot 50% or more in a game!
 
Barnes numbers may not look as good as Deng's but they do look a lot like Josh Childress's freshmen numbers. Childress came out as a Junior and went #6 in the '04 draft after improving each year in college.

Which is not exactly an endorsement of Barnes, but just points to the vagaries of the draft.

<table class="sortable stats_table" id="college"><thead><tr style="" class=""><th colspan="3" class="tooltip over_header" align="CENTER">
</th> <th colspan="16" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Totals</th> <th colspan="3" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Shooting</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Per Game</th> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Season</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">College</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2001-02</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">645</td> <td align="right">94</td> <td align="right">234</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">235</td> <td align="right">.402</td> <td align="right">.275</td> <td align="right">.694</td> <td align="right">21.5</td> <td align="right">7.8</td> <td align="right">4.8</td> <td align="right">0.8</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2002-03</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">1128</td> <td align="right">168</td> <td align="right">393</td> <td align="right">48</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">114</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">266</td> <td align="right">70</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">466</td> <td align="right">.427</td> <td align="right">.333</td> <td align="right">.719</td> <td align="right">34.2</td> <td align="right">14.1</td> <td align="right">8.1</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2003-04</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">685</td> <td align="right">124</td> <td align="right">254</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">86</td> <td align="right">78</td> <td align="right">95</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">173</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">360</td> <td align="right">.488</td> <td align="right">.395</td> <td align="right">.821</td> <td align="right">29.8</td> <td align="right">15.7</td> <td align="right">7.5</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">86</td> <td align="right">2458</td> <td align="right">386</td> <td align="right">881</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">310</td> <td align="right">185</td> <td align="right">245</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">583</td> <td align="right">155</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">1061</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">.335</td> <td align="right">.755</td> <td align="right">28.6</td> <td align="right">12.3</td> <td align="right">6.8</td> <td align="right">1.8</td></tr></tfoot></table>
Heck, this works both ways. Iguodala went 9th in the same draft after Deng and Childress, and his freshmen numbers at Arizona were retched:

<table class="sortable stats_table" id="college"><thead><tr style="" class=""><th colspan="3" class="tooltip over_header" align="CENTER">
</th> <th colspan="16" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Totals</th> <th colspan="3" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Shooting</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Per Game</th> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Season</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">College</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2002-03</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">ARIZONA</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">614</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">181</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">44</td> <td align="right">59</td> <td align="right">88</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">156</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">206</td> <td align="right">.381</td> <td align="right">.205</td> <td align="right">.670</td> <td align="right">19.2</td> <td align="right">6.4</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2003-04</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="left">ARIZONA</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">962</td> <td align="right">136</td> <td align="right">302</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">93</td> <td align="right">118</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">253</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">388</td> <td align="right">.450</td> <td align="right">.315</td> <td align="right">.788</td> <td align="right">32.1</td> <td align="right">12.9</td> <td align="right">8.4</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">62</td> <td align="right">1576</td> <td align="right">205</td> <td align="right">483</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">117</td> <td align="right">152</td> <td align="right">206</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">409</td> <td align="right">213</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">594</td> <td align="right">.424</td> <td align="right">.274</td> <td align="right">.738</td> <td align="right">25.4</td> <td align="right">9.6</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">3.4</td></tr></tfoot></table>
Suffice it to say that if Barnes was playing more impressively, he'd be going top-3 in this draft - but he's not playing like a franchise player. That still appears to leave a lot of open ground.
 
Last edited:
Pioneer10 said:
Deng averaged 15.1 points on a 47% FG percentage and 7 boards a game in his one and done year at Duke
Barnes is averaging 13.9 on a 40% FG percentage and 5.6 boards a game so far. Barnes has to be one of the most inefficient players to get so much attention in a while. The last game where he hit the game winner was his first one in 5 games where he shot 50% or more in a game!
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Gotta say, Barnes reminds me a ton of Luol Deng. And I would gladly take that.
 
Luol Deng would be a great pick at #8. A good third option.

I just don't see anyone better than Barnes that will be available at 8 (and Barnes may not even be available at 8 anyways).
 
JonFromVA said:
Barnes numbers may not look as good as Deng's but they do look a lot like Josh Childress's freshmen numbers. Childress came out as a Junior and went #6 in the '04 draft after improving each year in college.

Which is not exactly an endorsement of Barnes, but just points to the vagaries of the draft.

<table class="sortable stats_table" id="college"><thead><tr style="" class=""><th colspan="3" class="tooltip over_header" align="CENTER">
</th> <th colspan="16" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Totals</th> <th colspan="3" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Shooting</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Per Game</th> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Season</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">College</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2001-02</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">645</td> <td align="right">94</td> <td align="right">234</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">235</td> <td align="right">.402</td> <td align="right">.275</td> <td align="right">.694</td> <td align="right">21.5</td> <td align="right">7.8</td> <td align="right">4.8</td> <td align="right">0.8</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2002-03</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">1128</td> <td align="right">168</td> <td align="right">393</td> <td align="right">48</td> <td align="right">144</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">114</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">266</td> <td align="right">70</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">466</td> <td align="right">.427</td> <td align="right">.333</td> <td align="right">.719</td> <td align="right">34.2</td> <td align="right">14.1</td> <td align="right">8.1</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2003-04</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="left">STANFORD</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">685</td> <td align="right">124</td> <td align="right">254</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">86</td> <td align="right">78</td> <td align="right">95</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">173</td> <td align="right">61</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">360</td> <td align="right">.488</td> <td align="right">.395</td> <td align="right">.821</td> <td align="right">29.8</td> <td align="right">15.7</td> <td align="right">7.5</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">86</td> <td align="right">2458</td> <td align="right">386</td> <td align="right">881</td> <td align="right">104</td> <td align="right">310</td> <td align="right">185</td> <td align="right">245</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">583</td> <td align="right">155</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">1061</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">.335</td> <td align="right">.755</td> <td align="right">28.6</td> <td align="right">12.3</td> <td align="right">6.8</td> <td align="right">1.8</td></tr></tfoot></table>
Heck, this works both ways. Iguodala went 9th in the same draft after Deng and Childress, and his freshmen numbers at Arizona were retched:

<table class="sortable stats_table" id="college"><thead><tr style="" class=""><th colspan="3" class="tooltip over_header" align="CENTER">
</th> <th colspan="16" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Totals</th> <th colspan="3" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Shooting</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Per Game</th> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Season</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">College</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2002-03</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">ARIZONA</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">614</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">181</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">44</td> <td align="right">59</td> <td align="right">88</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">156</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">206</td> <td align="right">.381</td> <td align="right">.205</td> <td align="right">.670</td> <td align="right">19.2</td> <td align="right">6.4</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> </tr> <tr style="" class=""> <td align="left">2003-04</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="left">ARIZONA</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">962</td> <td align="right">136</td> <td align="right">302</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">93</td> <td align="right">118</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">253</td> <td align="right">147</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">388</td> <td align="right">.450</td> <td align="right">.315</td> <td align="right">.788</td> <td align="right">32.1</td> <td align="right">12.9</td> <td align="right">8.4</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">62</td> <td align="right">1576</td> <td align="right">205</td> <td align="right">483</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">117</td> <td align="right">152</td> <td align="right">206</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">409</td> <td align="right">213</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">594</td> <td align="right">.424</td> <td align="right">.274</td> <td align="right">.738</td> <td align="right">25.4</td> <td align="right">9.6</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">3.4</td></tr></tfoot></table>
Suffice it to say that if Barnes was playing more impressively, he'd be going top-3 in this draft - but he's not playing like a franchise player. That still appears to leave a lot of open ground.
Click to expand...

College game is different then even just 10 years ago: players just don't stay as long anymore
I'd also note re: Igoudala he only played 19 mpg. I'd argue that I'd be much more comfortable drafting Barnes if has another year of college under his belt
 
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