Connecticut School Shooting

Coc Rhakalu said:

Erm... Your Great Grandfather? Unless he was kicking it in the 1860s I don't think so.

Why were you in a cop car? How do they react when they find out you're carrying a gun? I'm genuinely curious about that.

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I'm not going to go into details of why I was, but I can tell you that at the end of that 20 minutes my gun was returned to me and I was on my way. Given the circumstances, they handled it fairly well. I did not break any law. I was not ticketed or anything....I can't say the same for those I was with

In a basic traffic stop, the driver and any person in the car who is armed (legally, of course) must notify the officer right away. Sometimes they will ask you for the weapon (which they did in my case), and that was that.

Im just thinking outside the box, I am not trying to be insensitive, just thinkin of outside the box deterrents. I believe every second saved could be another kids life.

Teachers have a button. When pressed, someone in the school office gets the message, someone in the office assumes responsibility for the safety of their students and grabs a shotgun.


I don't trust teachers killing the student with handguns. If you have never shot a handgun before, Hollywood made it look too easy. It takes much practice and familiarizing yourself with weapon, and a steady hand to accurately fire a handgun. In addition, it helps to have calm nerves, which a teacher in distress probably won't have.

I'd go with a shotgun. It allows you to aim in a general direction, as the shot projectiles disperse outward in a cone like pattern. You could accurately fire from the hip and eliminate the threat.

You can't wait on police, as I said before: every second saved could be another kids life saved.

Even if the teachers shot accidentaly struck other innocent students caught in the crossfire, it would still probably save more lives than if you allow the shooter more time to keep firing away and reloading.

When a killer like this is heavily armed with multiple magazines of ammunition, it's best to take him down AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

To a mass murderer, this is their sick dream, sitting ducks. The faster the kid can be taken down, the more lives could be saved.

If you are a patriot of this country, or honorable citizen you put all BS aside and intervene as quickly as possible.

Nothing worse than the bystander effect of every guy waitin on the next guy to take action.

If you are a real man, or woman that stands for doing the right thing, you give the teachers the option to arm themselves and be the difference in saving lives.

Ordinary citizens have done some extraordinarily honorable things.

Any kids life saved is a bonus. Sad way to think about it, I just can't help feel like some kid is going to do this again in the future.....and our filthy fucking pig media .....gives them all the attention they so desperately craved.

Stop making a fucking circus scene out of it. Let the citizens intervene and let this problem fade away on its own. By making a media circus out of it your giving them their sick glory.

Are we not a great country anymore? Please tell me there's still some people with decency, some patriots that will take action, not run away and put it on the next guy to take the action.

These are our fucking kids here.

Let me get this straight? You want to give shotguns to teachers? Good idea, let us give a weapon that is even more deadly than handguns. You automatically assume teachers turn into some type of Hollywood killer. The teachers are scared shitless as well, and giving them shotguns is a terrible idea. One ill aimed shot from that thing and you can easily take down 5+ innocent people.

Chardon said:

One ill aimed shot from that thing and you can easily take down 5+ innocent people.

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lol?

Tlyons said:

With the way guns are incorporated into our society, it seems that we will have to accept that these things will happen.

If we arm teachers, where is the gun kept? On their hip? In a locked drawer(almost defeats the pupose of having it). How do we prevent students from wrestling the gun away from said teacher( highschool kids are fucking big)? How many teachers are armed? What is a metal detector going to do if the guard who is running it gets shot and killed. Does this relieve teachers' stress or make it worse knowing they need a gun?

Is it possible that nothing needs to happen and we accept that in a free society "anomalies" like this just occur?

Damn man i haven't even thought about this happening right before Christmas. Just...Fuck this sucks.

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Yes. Ben Franklin and the other founders knew the risks involved in a free society. He said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

He knew it was a sliding scale. The freer the society, the less safe/secure they are from one another. The more controlled the society (police state like it becomes) the more secure they are from one another, but ultimately they will cease to be secure from their own government.

Which is really what it comes down to. On one end of the scale exists security from your government, while living relatively insecure from your fellow citizens. And on the other end the exact opposite holds true.

If I was confronted with a situation like this unarmed, I'd be interested in what people with gun knowledge would recommend that I take to save myself and others. Here are a couple of examples:

(1) In an open space like a mall food court and a shooter with an automatic weapon
(2) Open space, non automatic, say a handgun
(3) Closed space like a classroom or office, automatic weapon
(4) Closed space, non automatic

Let's say in the closed space scenario that they have locked the doors and nobody can get out. I don't know why and I don't even know if this would be the case if it actually happened, but deep down I believe that I could attack a shooter in this situation.

Would I want to or would I be better off running? What do you do here?

Rich said:

!) It wouldn't prevent criminals from obtaining them with relative ease 2)It would cost a shit-ton of money, ala the drug war, to then combat the black-market that would be created by the law 3)the subsequent "gun war" would ultimately end up in more people dead than just allowing people to freely obtain weapons.

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The idea of banning all guns is ridiculous and not practical. Banning certain high power weapons is feasable. I don't think many people are taking the stance of banning all guns. Most people want to restrict the mentally unstable and challaneged citizens access to them. Not unreasonable.

Also, to your #3 point. More people will die as a result of the blackmarket which I don't disagree with. However; the majority of people that die in your scenario will certainly be looking for trouble where the kindergartners and teachers couldn't have been more innoncent.

Chardon said:

Let me get this straight? You want to give shotguns to teachers? Good idea, let us give a weapon that is even more deadly than handguns. You automatically assume teachers turn into some type of Hollywood killer. The teachers are scared shitless as well, and giving them shotguns is a terrible idea. One ill aimed shot from that thing and you can easily take down 5+ innocent people.

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how is a shotgun more deadly than a hand gun? Especially scatter shot (Im not a fan of that in his suggestion though). One shot is NOT going to kill 5+ innocent people. Are you that familiar with guns? A lot of variables have to be considered to determine what gun would be "more deadly". And I think it goes without saying that the teachers would have to have some sort of training/certification.

Prove It said:

If I was confronted with a situation like this unarmed, I'd be interested in what people with gun knowledge would recommend that I take to save myself and others. Here are a couple of examples:

(1) In an open space like a mall food court and a shooter with an automatic weapon
(2) Open space, non automatic, say a handgun
(3) Closed space like a classroom or office, automatic weapon
(4) Closed space, non automatic

Let's say in the closed space scenario that they have locked the doors and nobody can get out. I don't know why and I don't even know if this would be the case if it actually happened, but deep down I believe that I could attack a shooter in this situation.

Would I want to or would I be better off running? What do you do here?

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Lay down and play dead? Too many variables really...I think if the shooter thought you were dead, he wouldnt shoot at you, though.

I'm not going to go through twelve pages to say my two cents so if someone has already said it I apologize.

The guns used in the Connecticut shooting were legally owned by the shooters mother. They also would have been legally owned under any form of gun control that has ever been proposed in Congress. Ironically the gun that would have been illegal was left in the shooters car.


Here are some readings related to the Columbine shootings I found very insightful and applicable to today:

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.

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^Roger Ebert^
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031107/REVIEWS/311070301/1023

A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dipshits Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

...

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

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^Marilyn Manson^
http://www.antilife.org/files/marilyn.html

Tlyons said:

Economy collapse, good point. Gov't takeover... Your weapons and how many you have will not matter. The gov't have weapons we couldn't imagine that would render everything John Q. Public have obsolete

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Military members are members of the society as well and would more than likely side with us in a situation of a takeover.

b00bie said:

You really have to take a step back and wonder.

Are we this lazy as a society to not find the root psychological issues of what is causing this outpouring of violence and vitriol, instead spending millions upon millions of dollars to secure elementary schools from domestic terrorism?

I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my head around that as a sensible mechanism for stopping the violence.

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Well, that would be ideal. I just don't think it'd be that easy to figure out as the brain is one extremely complicated organ.

Prove It said:

If I was confronted with a situation like this unarmed, I'd be interested in what people with gun knowledge would recommend that I take to save myself and others. Here are a couple of examples:

(1) In an open space like a mall food court and a shooter with an automatic weapon

Without a weapon? You run/hide. FAST. With a gun? Well, if you're close by - assuming I'd have a handgun - you might shoot at the criminal. Maybe you become a martyr for the sake of peace? Who knows. If I'm further away....I would probably just find the quickest exit, call 911 and leave. If I was trapped inside and close by, I'd obvious be taking cover and looking to possibly shoot the criminal.

(2) Open space, non automatic, say a handgun

Without a weapon? You better run and hide. If you were within, say, 5-10 feet, I would suggest trying to disarm him (I carry a knife, I'd probably try and hit the gun with my fist and take the knife to his throat/face. With a weapon? Depending on where you are (again, open space all depends on your weapon and how far away you are from the criminal) you'd look to shoot the criminal. Your weapon is JUST as deadly as his (at least, you must think that if you're going to come out alive). A well placed bullet or 2 will render anyone dead. I think I'd take my chances on killing him rather than running away if it's a wipe open space and he's already shooting at me or will be shooting at me.

(3) Closed space like a classroom or office, automatic weapon

Without a weapon? Simply get the fuck out of there or you'll be dead. Or, if you have the chance, try and disarm the criminal. With a weapon? Well, I usually only carry a .380 auto....It's very small. The accuracy is only good out to about 5 yards or so...and that's stretching it. If I'm within 10 feet, he's going down. If I'm far away...depending on what is going on....I might have to duck out.

(4) Closed space, non automatic

I think you get the idea.

Let's say in the closed space scenario that they have locked the doors and nobody can get out. I don't know why and I don't even know if this would be the case if it actually happened, but deep down I believe that I could attack a shooter in this situation.

Would I want to or would I be better off running? What do you do here?

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It all depends on the situation, man. People do crazy things.....you might go into a zone and not even realize what happens until it's all over (dead or not).

Pick6 said:

Lay down and play dead? Too many variables really...I think if the shooter thought you were dead, he wouldnt shoot at you, though.

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Very true. There are way too many variables.

Rap Soda said:

Well, that would be ideal. I just don't think it'd be that easy to figure out as the brain is one extremely complicated organ.

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Exactly. We literally don't even know what consciousness is at this point in time. We can describe it in various terms but we don't have it mapped out. There was a quantum physicist on a show and he was saying we'd actually have to get down to the quantum level to ever have a clear understanding of how the brain actually works.

We are so far from figuring it out it may take another 300 years. The point is, psychologist cannot possibly map out what was going on inside this guys head and if they claim they can, they are full of it. Psychology in general is in it's infant stages and is based on theory and not tangible evidence of how the brain actually works.