Winning > Tanking... All day..

Rainman said:

At this point don't see us trying to put Lebron here, just think he would mess it up.

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Totally....

DionWaters said:

Isnt this about when the thunder started winning games too?

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After one bad year that got them Durant and another that got them Westbrook, they had one more bad year, in which they started 3-29, but finished a more respectable 20-30, totalling a still-bad 23-59, getting Harden, then getting much better the next year as they all matured. Firing PJ Carlesimo and replacing him with current coach Scott Brooks probably helped the second part of the season get better.

As if things are coming full circle, Shaun Livingston was part of that roster.

RMsDanielGibson said:

Listen, we gotta be disciplined when it comes to our future. You can either have what you want now (winning) or what you want the most (championship). Discipline is putting aside winning now for a a championship later in this instance.

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Being disciplined by intentionally losing? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Rainman said:

At this point don't see us trying to put Lebron here, just think he would mess it up.

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Bro...we beat Boston, Milwaukee, and Toronto. We ain't world beaters right now.

The tank has been blown up. We actually have a bench that belongs in the league and won't necessarily bleed points every second they're on the floor, so our core can now really show where they're at.

The trouble with tanking is that Irving is rolling in one of these:

<img src='http://www.thesupercars.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/bugatti-veyron-super-sports-480.jpg'></a>

Hydroponic3385 said:

How does cheering for a few more wins this season equate to "...without infusing any more significant talents"? We'll still have our draft pick, a plethora of other current and future draft picks, and enormous flexibility with our cap space the next few years. This team is loaded with assets to individually, or in combination, infuse much more significant talent to this team for years.

If the Cavs finish out the season leapfrogging a number of teams in the standings, yes come lottery time I'll be a bit nervous. But perhaps the lottery gods will be on our side and we'd still land in the top 3? Perhaps a surprising player falls to us? Maybe Chris Grant and his scouts make a great pick wherever we are (even if it's say the 5th-9th pick range; hell, we tend to not pick the guy that most mock drafts would have us pick anyway)? Or maybe we utilize 1 or 2 of our many assets to move up and grab they guy we wanted all along?

We've had to witness some rather shitty basketball for 2.5 years after a rather shitty ending to our previous era of basketball in Cleveland. Rooting for our next generation of Cavs - led by a bunch of rookies and sophomores - during a mini-winning streak is downright fun. And it's also a great sign seeing the passion, hunger, and talent in them.

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Picks in the 20s will not infuse significant talent into the team. It's just the sad realism of the NBA Draft.

Yes, we will likely have a top 5 pick this season...because we "tanked" (I hate the term, I dont think the Cavs threw games intentionally). See what I am saying? Hunger and passion and desire to win and competitiveness and all these goofy intangibles are fun to talk about sometimes, but at the end of the day I am a believer in talent. And the Cavs are nowhere close to where they need to be at that level. I don't care how they pick in the top 3; just that they do. They're not trading into the top 3, I can guarantee you that (this is a silly dream a lot of people seem to think will happen) so they either need to lose a lot or get lucky.

Lastly, I don't mind a few wins like this and never said I did. On the contrary, actually. As long as they still draft top 3-5.

Chris said:

Picks in the 20s will not infuse significant talent into the team. It's just the sad realism of the NBA Draft.

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In no way are we dependent on lucking out on some of those picks that may be in the 20s. I never said such a thing.

The Cavs have an arsenal of draft picks, young talent, and cap space. They have a lot of flexibility in how they acquire additional talent in the next few years. Their own draft picks (which may include some luck with the lottery, trading up several slots, or actually making a very good pick whether it's at #2 or #10), trades (acquiring assets and/or talent via trades like the Memphis one where teams are concerned about $, especially with the tougher rules upcoming with the CBA; finally using our plentiful assets to capitalize on the next Harden/Bynum type trade; etc.), and free agency (I'm in no way banking on this, but by maintaining cap space flexibility, there's always a shot we land some nice 2nd or 3rd best player on a team type talent in 2014, or better yet, he-who-should-not-be-named).

Hydroponic3385 said:

The Cavs have an arsenal of draft picks, young talent, and cap space. They have a lot of flexibility in how they acquire additional talent in the next few years. In no way are we dependent on lucking out on some of those picks that may be in the 20s. I never said such a thing.

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That's the same mantra I hear over and over. When are they going to use all these assets to acquire this big talent? I'll believe it when I see it.

Chris said:

That's the same mantra I hear over and over. When are they going to use all these assets to acquire this big talent? I'll believe it when I see it.

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I edited my post before I ever saw you respond.

And the Cavs FO will jump on a trade to utilize our assets when the right time comes. There's no why I can answer your question otherwise. If anything, it's a nice balance of 1) having some very nice young talent right now 2) still relatively sucking in the win/loss column for continued high draft picks and 3) soon enough (guaranteed by 2014) using a lot of the assets we've stockpiled.

Chris said:

That's the same mantra I hear over and over. When are they going to use all these assets to acquire this big talent? I'll believe it when I see it.

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I mean, we just saw OKC deal one of the best young two-guards in the league because they couldn't afford to pay him. We're only going to see more deals like that as the new CBA luxury tax rules kick in.

I like seeing the team come around and win some games. It has to help the mentality of our young players. We're still getting a lottery pick this year and will still have three more picks from somewhere in the late 20s to late 30s to work with. If there was a player like Kyrie or LBJ or Durant in this draft I would be more nervous about sliding down a bit lower in the lottery, but there's not.

@ both of you.

I will believe the Cavs will make a deal like that when I see it. I still think you know who is our best chance at reaching the promised land again. To me, it's all about making the team as appealing as possible for 2014. If they can trade for some star talent I'll be happy as hell, that just doesn't happen a lot.

Chris said:

@ both of you.

I will believe the Cavs will make a deal like that when I see it. I still think you know who is our best chance at reaching the promised land again. To me, it's all about making the team as appealing as possible for 2014. If they can trade for some star talent I'll be happy as hell, that just doesn't happen a lot.

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I've never denied that bringing LeBron back would give us the best shot at winning titles. That's basically a given.

But that said, we can't plan our future around him coming back. It's in our best interests to stockpile picks and young assets either to use ourselves or package in a deal.

Chris said:

@ both of you.

I will believe the Cavs will make a deal like that when I see it. I still think you know who is our best chance at reaching the promised land again. To me, it's all about making the team as appealing as possible for 2014. If they can trade for some star talent I'll be happy as hell, that just doesn't happen a lot.

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You know what happens less often? The best player in the game joining a team who's been absolutely pathetic for 3-4 straight years, regardless of how much young talent they have. There's nothing wrong with the Cavs demonstrating that they're not one of the worst 2-3 teams year in, year out. If this year we end up a bottom 3 team (just like the past 2 years), and we continue your strategy next year (4 years in a row as one of the worst few teams), it's hard to fathom any good free agent wanting to come here. If we really have THAT great of young talent, we're bound to creep up into the standings a bit this year, and even more next year.

I'm not some karma-loving, unrealistic fan who wants us to fight for the playoffs this year, who is fine with getting say the 12th pick in the draft. But I'm also not (an equally unrealistic) fan who wants us to blow for a 4 years straight (including next year) and just assume we'll luck out with some free agent coming here. That many terrible seasons in a row would tell me that our young talent just isn't that great. Or if somehow it were, we're never gonna be able to keep half a dozen plus young guys once they're off their rookie contracts.

Rather, I want to cheer on my team when it wins, and be thankful that we have so much going for us (a young super star, some other nice young pieces, a ton of draft picks, a ton of cap space flexibility, an owner so willing to spend, and a GM who demonstrates that he wins trades and that he's willing to explore making big moves (we most certainly were exploring the Bynum possibility, and fortunately we declined)).

If we only get a couple more fun wins, but end up with a top 3 chance at a #1 pick, I'll be excited. If we continue to impress and rack up some more wins, and end up with the #8 odds or so at the #1 pick, I'll still be excited. I'll be even more confident in our young guys, and just put my faith into some combination of the lottery gods helping us, Grant and his scouts identifying the best prospect regardless of where we're at (and we tend to pick guys projected at lower picks anyway), and using some assets to move up a few spots if we need to do so to nab the guy we want. Because if we want to be a contender, we can't solely rely on having the best odds at a top pick every year. We need a front office who knows what it's doing, and a bit of luck.